Yu definitely came into Shenmue III with a strong on-paper plan and a wealth of old development documents and art to work with; if that's how we're defining development before the Kickstarter launched. Coding and assets though? Nah.

It's an advantage at least. Not a huge one, as there's always going to be a period of revision to make the vision suit the reality. Knowing what you want and how to make it is half the battle in game development, though.

The lack of content shown is certainly a reason to believe this game isn't coming out in 6-7 months.
I don't think this is a solid argument when we know for a fact that far more work has been done than shown on Kickstarter. YSnet have their reasons for not showing it yet, but don't take that to mean they're struggling to get things done.

Obviously this isn't a guarantee they'll make December. Just a reminder that not seeing game content yet is kind of irrelevant in the wider context.

Fans buying multiple copies won't save the series. It'll help boost numbers a little, don't get me wrong, but it won't be enough.

The real aim should be outreach and getting people interested in Shenmue. Promotion for III will do most of the work (HD remasters too, if they happen), but the fan community has to do their part to positively push the series where we can as a grassroots approach. The vast majority of my posts on GAF these days are to try and do this, barring the times where I correct inaccuracies and misconceptions about III and the series at large.

That said, I don't think this is as much of an uphill fight as it could be. Shenmue III is the first time ever the series has launched on not one, but two successful platforms. The sheer value of these install bases should help push sales through pure statistics. The series has a higher profile than... well, ever. The market has also shown that Shenmue-like games can carve out a very successful niche for themselves (see: Life is Strange selling over 3 million copies), and that gamers are more accepting of alternative experiences as mainstream big games edge towards boring monotony and homogeneity.

As long as III is good, offers something unique, and we do our part to push the series; I think we can at least put Shenmue III in a position to sell well.

It was NOT pushed back last PSX. Gio Corsi told me that they never planned to show it or had even discussed showing it with them.
That's not the word from the Japan dinner, where it was said explicitly or near-explicitly by the developers that they were aiming for PSX (this is the first hand information we've been told on here publicly by people like Peter, so I obviously cannot personally verify even if I do believe it to be true).

And as I've said before, these statements do not contradict each other. YSnet could have had PSX plans and killed them before they even spoke a word of them to Sony.

Welp. No E3, unless they're fucking with us.

On the upswing, I really like that they're taking the character models closer to Kenji Miyawaki's art. I wasn't expecting it at all, so I'm actually quite pleased.

Doesn't it look a bit cartoony ??
Well, it looks like Miyawaki's art . If I remember rightly, he's a manga artist, so...

I dunno about the rest of you, but I actually quite like that they've made the choice to go more stylised. Realism chasing was never going to happen on Shenmue III's budget, so I'm glad they're making use of their genuinely great character designer's artwork to shape the art style of the game.

Actually, you know what it kinda reminds me of? How the Zelda team have handled their art. They've always stuck pretty closely to their paper character designs even while going "realistic".

http://i.imgur.com/koU01lT.png

Face looks good. Body model is too over the top in my opinion. Reminds me of that WWE legends game.
Extreme bodies aren't much of a new thing in Shenmue, though... I think this guy is just exceptionally jacked. He does look a little buffer than the character art in the arms, though.

Some more screens:

http://i.imgur.com/NMWFs7V.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/X6NnICc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/of37clV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cmL0AeL.jpg

I think they've actually done a really good job translating Miyawaki's art to the 3D model.

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote: Saying the guy is jacked is an understatement

The concept art looks human. Those forearms and biceps are indeed crazy.

Calling it now, dude is probably gonna be a boss battle.

I don't like it. I'm not saying to chase photorealistim but I don't want manga style characters either. There's a medium. Realism doesn't necessarily mean photo realistic.
I'd wait to see a bit more before you make your mind up about it, but in all honesty, it's a lot better than a half-measure between the art and realism; and them possibly falling short in either department. Miyawaki's art has a lot of personality that was kinda lost when translated to 3D in the original games, so I'm glad they're making good use of his work.

That's my takeaway... that the model looks more like a fully realized version of the character design art than we've seen previously. There's something lively about the character design sketches that has not always translated well to the 3D characters. This looks like it has a lot of the personality of the drawings carried over really well to the character model.
Completely agreed.

Where's all this Shenmue III on DC talk come from all of a sudden? We've always known development never began on III. Yes, even if they made a Niao Sun character model for the premiere, and yes, even if for a long time we all thought the cut content out of the end of II (Miao Village, etc) was really Bailu in III. It never started. The most recent source we have on this is Ryan Payton saying they never really made anything past the ending point of II on a podcast.

YS himself said we would see something substantial in early 2017. We're now 6 months into 2017.
No, he didn't.

Exact quote:
“Development is entering the final stage headed towards full-scale production. Early in the new year, I think we’ll be able to show you things such as new videos .

And we've had new footage of the game, though fleeting.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/shenmue/images/4/48/Cool_J_Z.png/revision/latest?cb=20160210173117

It's such a departure from the photorealistic style we all remember. :roll:
To that effect:
https://i.neoseeker.com/ca/shenmue2_conceptart_VfMWk.jpg

I really don't get why there's a pushback on taking a step closer to the concept art. I mean, I guess I do (opinions, etc), but I'm really failing to see the big deal. Why push for absolute realism when you have a great lead character designer in Kenji Miyawaki with a distinct style?

People of a sensitive disposition to this should brace themselves for Ryo, because if they're going back to the original artwork he's going to look more like:

http://i.imgur.com/KNsB6L2.png

- than the passport model. Frankly, it's the right decision.

Because many of us really love the style of the old games and they didn't look like manga. The main characters are stylized but not cartoony. So it's not about a push for absolute realism. Though many of the ordinary people are made to look more realistic even though they are less detailed and made with less polygons.

The old games were never meant to look like Miyawakis original concept images. His drawings provide a basis for the characters but the in-game models are based on highly detailed 3d-models sush as these: (http://img.neoseeker.com/v_concept_art.php?caid=13792) (http://img.neoseeker.com/v_concept_art.php?caid=13794), and to some extent the busts that they made of the main characters. Even though the in-game models are obviously less detailed you can still see it's the same person and the peronality and character of the original 3D concept images is preserved. For me, this design is a huge part of what makes Shenmue my favorite game, and a manga style Shenmue is such a drastic departure from the old design that it wouldn't feel like Shenmue to me anymore. I highly doubt they will go that direction though.
The old games were made in a completely different time in completely different circumstances, to push the boundaries of what a video game even was in that era.

We were never going to get that with Shenmue III. It was never going to have the budget to keep up with the games that push those boundaries (visually, at least).

They made the right choice stepping closer towards the character designs, because the alternatives are either to shoot for something they know is out of their reach (at the expense of the whole project), or just produce a middling, fence-sitting attempt that doesn't capture any of the artistry of the designs or blow us away with technical prowess.

But yes, as you and others have said; things will still change, and we've only seen the character in a neutral test environment doing basic animation tests for defects in the model rigging. But don't expect them to suddenly do a 180 on adhering closer to the concept art that they have before. They've made the best, and ultimately most aesthetically pleasing choice in a difficult situation.

And with that also said, this character's design is inherently exaggerated. They're not all going to look this over the top.

The news article on Eurogamer is actually pretty factual, and they're not going hugely out of their way to make a big thing out of the title.

The comments are awful, on the other hand. Many people are using console wars bullshit to twist the knife.

I really wish that Sega would lend their development tools to YS to help with these character models. Whoever does the character models for the Yakuza games would have a good chance of nailing the look that we're expecting out of Shenmue III.
There's nothing in their toolset YSnet doesn't already have with UE4. Yakuza and Shenmue just have different aesthetics.

If you want something that looks like Yakuza, go play Yakuza.

Is it still the theory that Sony funded the game but used KS to test the waters of interest?
Nah. It's been clarified a few times now that Sony is only handling marketing and publishing of the PS4 version of Shenmue III; allowing YSnet to use more of the money they raised through other means (KS, Shibuya Productions) on development.

I know people raised a stink about it, but it's a good system for making riskier games. Smaller devs get the benefit of a big platform holder like Sony fighting their corner, and Sony hugely limits the amount of financial risk they're exposed to, while still getting niche content to add value to their software library and drive market expansion.

The reality is that Sony is paying for marketing. No one knows anything else. Cedric Biscay's company is supposedly providing financial backing, but no one knows how much. I don't imagine his company has much money, but I don't know the state of his finances, his company's finances or if he has outside investors. Then again, isn't Monaco an incredibly expensive place?
Shibuya Productions have several million tied up in Shenmue III apparently. Cedric Biscay in 2015:

"The budget is about several million euros, funded widely by Shibuya Prod's own funds."

I believe that comment is from Monaco Hebdo.

I'm still not understanding the slot house's appeal.
Personally, it's just a nice bit of extra texture to the world. Do I visit the slot houses often in Shenmue/Shenmue II? Nah, but it's nice that they're there.

Like I said in my earlier post, a beat up slot machine in the warehouse arcade in III would be nice; if only because it would add to the lived-in feel.

http://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50804&p=1151099#p1151099

You even posted below :)
I thought for a minute I'd missed major news, but I guess not.

Who besides you thought he was a freelancer? I thought it was deduced pretty quickly he was just the guy who made the 3D printed mirrors Yu was presented at the San Francisco dinner.

If that was all I took from it I would not have a War and Peace novel at 5 am as that's something I don't do much anymore. :P No one is upset or even close to it. :)
Well you seemed upset.

Doesn't matter anyway.

Bluecast wrote: I believe a developer on neogaf confirmed HD remasters are coming. It would not take 2 years tho. That's insane.

Veeeeeeery liberal use of the word confirmed if you're talking about the fella from Just Add Water.

Death Stranding was announced 2016 with full trailer. Shenmue 3 2015 and still....
That was an engine test dressed up as a trailer.

To really hit home to how little they had done at that point, it wasn't even the final engine they're using on the actual game. The E3 trailer was Sucker Punch's engine, the TGA trailer was Decima - which is what they're now developing the game with.

Don't believe bullshit marketing as an indicator of completion.

There will always be time for marketing. But it's never a good idea for it to take priority over development.

drunkensailor wrote:let's say the budget is 10 million dollars. well by now having to pay all those people for an extra year, the budget will be cut seriously in terms of game value. that sucks.

I... what? Game value? What the fuck are you talking about?

Oh, I don't expect the backer demo before summer 2018 and it WILL be very small. I don't recall there ever being a playable demo of a Shenmue game as it's simply not that type of game. I expect the demo to be incredibly small; maybe only a small portion of a town (a couple blocks) with a couple mini games and a fight scene.

While I'll download the demo and burn it to DVD for safe keeping, I doubt that I'll actually attempt to play it. For starters my PC is about as powerful as an Xbox 360 (if that) and I don't want to spoil anything for when I play the full version on PS4.
Somewhere, What's Shenmue is crying in a corner.

But really, I think they may get the demo out for December if only to get some consumer feedback while they've still got 6+ months on the clock. We'll see how it pans out, but it'd be great if we got our hands on Shenmue III in some small capacity this year.

Actually, I'm keeping my fingers crossed it'll be one of the details covered in the update later this month.

----------------------

I wouldn't pay much attention to Technophilz, everybody.

Listen to people who've actually seen the game and met Yu Suzuki + certain team members, like Peter.

YSnet aren't going to say where the money is from, so this is cyclical and pointless if you're not satisfied by valid suggestions made by other posters.

Kojima made the right decision.

As did Yu.

Getting your head down and working will never be a bad idea.

Fellas, there's a topic for if you prefer II over the original. Let the people who prefer the original have this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50860

Staying totally Zen tonight.

There's smoke, but there's no guarantee we'll see the fire just yet.

So when is SEGA's showcase? Not that I'm putting much faith in them to deliver.
SEGA isn't having a showcase, which is the norm for them. They'll be on the show floor with the games they've said they're bringing to the event.

I suppose the HD Collection won't be happening.
No-showing doesn't mean that at all.

The delay update was on the server for a day before it went live, which was waaaaaay longer than they've ever left anything on there.

There was a fear amongst Shenmue Dojo staff that the announcement would leak, so Awesome Japan were tipped off to the exploit.

11th April

$6,741,561 (+$184)

74,165 backers (+2) ($92 per backer)

12th April

$6,741,682 (+$121)

74,168 backers (+3) ($40 per backer)

16 days later...

28th April

$6,747,423 (+$5741)

74,239 (+71) ($80.5 per backer)

Bingo!

11th May 2017 (13 days since last update)

$6,753,052 (+$5,629)

74,324 (+85) (+$66/backer)

31 May 2017 (+20 days)

$6,762,419 (+$9,367)

74,448 (+124) (+$75/backer)

Wow at those numbers!
13th June 2017 (+13 days)

$6,769,134 (+$6,715)

74,535 backers (+87)

In an interview, Shuhei Yoshida stated:

"There are things we have held [back],” Yoshida laughed. “We chose not to show those at E3 2017, but there will be some more news coming out from our teams later this year. No question.”

Still hope for PSX, as Shenmue HD didn't fit in with their lineup, not without III there.
I think this may have been more in reference to Sony's first party offerings; which I believe Yoshida is in charge of.

Something weird I've noticed - some people are claiming this delay is not the first for the game; which we obviously know is false.

I just have to wonder how narratives like this even begin...

Either way, if you see something like that, don't be afraid to set the record straight.

Banned the account and deleted the posts that were reported.

Looked like Sonic 4 Episode 1, which was, well, mobile trash dropped onto consoles with the expectation for it to sell on name alone.

Whatever marketing company made that video has basically zero idea of SEGA's negative baggage with gamers these days.

Jet Set Radio already had a mobile port, so I'm not too surprised about that supposedly making the cut.

Overall this means basically nil for Shenmue HD as of right now. I figure SEGA knows they can squeeze way more cash out of a proper re-release rather than just throwing it onto this service.

Short answer: Nah.

Long answer: Nah, but it's impossible to please everybody so there will inevitably be people who say it does suck. It'll be business as usual for people who actively dislike the series anyway, so whatever.

That's pretty much what I expect.

I really hope they will make the pledge upgrade option available soon.
For a selfish reason: I want more collectibles...
And also because 7M$ is not that far anymore and I'm sure we will it the mark easily if the make the pledge upgrade possible.

Other than that, a few new screenshots would be just perfect.
I'm not 100% certain on this, but I've heard other Kickstarters have used a system called backerkit for surveys, which I believe includes the option to change delivery address (within reason, so up to the point of dispatch) and upgrade pledges.

If this is the case, and if Awesome Japan are on the ball, then we may still get the pledge upgrade option and surveys this Summer. Between pledge upgrades and the Slacker Backer campaign, $7 million might be within reach by the year's end.

Aw yis.

Predictions:

- Surveys/pledge upgrades (either delayed, or going out via backerkit)
- Slacker Backer site (either ends soon, or early 2018)

Hopes:

- Details on the backer demo
- Details on physical rewards (images, maybe a roll-out of certain rewards ahead of release)
- New screens/dev room video

Dreams:

- Backer demo out before the end of the year
- Confirmation of where/when to re-reveal will be (will accept "we will show you the game properly before the end of 2017")

TGS' relevance has been slipping for years and years. If YSnet decided not to show at E3, I'm not sure they'll bring anything to an objectively inferior show just three months later either.

That said, I would not be surprised if we get a new Yu Suzuki interview from the Japanese gaming press at that time. Yu is a regular attendee at the show and may set aside some time to talk to someone from Famitsu or the like.

That is, if he has time to go this year.

The dream of a big update may as well be dead right now.

Not in a bad way mind you, but it's getting to the point where we're going to have skipped seeing most of the nuts and bolts development process.

What we'll be seeing instead will be much closer to the final version - by which point they may as well just showcase that on a wider stage if at all possible.

We'll probably end up seeing a fuller picture of the game being developed after it comes out, via Adam Sipione's Shenmue documentary (if it releases after the game), and whatever YSnet decide to release posthumously (a "Making of Shenmue III" GDC panel in 2019 would be neat).

A backer demo was a rewards tier for $100 and over, so it should be accounted for in the budget and schedule.

Option A.) https://shenmue.link/order/?en

Option B.) Wait to see if pledge upgrades are going live this summer still.

I never attend any game show but do you know if they have a conference on Gamescom?
If we're talking about Sony, then yes - when they've attended they've had a livestreamed conference similar to E3.

I'm not sure if Sony have confirmed they'll be there this year, but they definitely have hinted at it. I think it's safe to say they'll be there, and Shenmue III will have their showing at their conference.

https://twitter.com/CedricBiscay/status ... 4412107776

Shibuya Productions aren't the ones exhibiting Shenmue III at Gamescom, but more info about who is will come soon.

My money is that Sony are going to announce a presence/conference in the next few weeks.

You say that as if Shenmue's concept art hasn't been like that from the start.