Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Raithos » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:54 pm

You're looking at that the wrong way man. There is no Squaresoft side. You can't split the company down the middle like that to make a point. Its been Square Enix since 2003 and they have a great development turn around with the exception of two games. Even if you don't want to count them for whatever reason, XIII-2, Lighting Returns, FF7 Crisis Core, FF Type-0 and World of Final Fantasy are full fledged titles. That's not even counting the 3 PSP remakes, the DS titles or Final Fantasy Explorers for 3DS. Or all of the PC ports.

Yeah Kingdom Hearts 2 came out in 2006, but since then we've gotten what 6 or 7 "spin offs"? And dude every single one is cannon. You have to play them if you want the complete story. What does it honestly matter if it has a 3 behind it or not? The time between mainline numbered titles is irrelevant when you look at allll the other games in those series that have released. And that's only two of their series. Its not like SE is sitting on either franchise and not putting out games for it.

None of that changes if you like a game or not, just saying that regarding the development cycles.

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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Himuro » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:56 am

A couple of things.

1. I think SE announced Final Fantasy projects too early and have since XIII. Maybe even XII.

2. While it's fair that people complain games like COD and Assassin's Creed are yearly, Final Fantasy games are not yearly. It feels like a false equivalence in many ways. And while it's true that games have longer development times, FFVIIR is a remake of a twenty year old game and people have only seen one clip of gameplay and a short teaser trailer in the two years since its reveal. Given this is a project helmed by a dude who needed someone else to finish his pet project after nearly ten years it's not shocking that people are worried about this aspect and the lack of information?

3. The game being a remake most of the work is already done. It's a fair criticism that so far, going by what Nomura has said, that the game is overly ambitious for what it is, and should be as safe as possible. As an addendum, again, this is directed by Tersuya Nomura who floated idea after idea on what he wanted Versus to be. At one point he humored making it an opera. Given that this is, again, a remake, it's fair to be worried considering the staff involved that we may have a repeat Versus situation. It's also fair to think that artistically, the staff is allowed to do whatever they want to do being their product. But at the end of the day, SE needs to mop up their messes from the past ten years and get to work on continuing their comeback with making FFXVI as good as possible. The longer FFVIIR is in development the bigger the doubts towards XVI grows.

4. Splitting a remake of a twenty year old game into multiple parts to be bought multiple times isn't going to sit well with people and people will mad about that from the outset.

5. Nomura is also co-directing KHIII. So his entire attention isn't even fully on the remake when we have established that he had a problem with directing hd games.

6. The remake itself. Like I said above, I personally just wanted something REmake style. Something that takes FFVII, gives it some modern graphics, rebalanced game difficulty, new features that completely change how the game is meant to be played (like how much of a game changer Crimson heads are in REmake), with the game rearranged so that playing it feels fresh to old players, and the ultimate version of the game but very conservative and traditional as far as remakes go. Some people just wanted a legitimate remaster - re-doing the backgrounds in HD, new models, something more along the lines of remakes like FF1 in FF Origins or maybe FFX/X-2 HD. Some people wanted a full on remake with modern gameplay like an open world and action rpg battle system. There's no way, in all this time of teasing and wishing, that the remake could possibly satisfy every one of these demographics.

If Nomura proves himself to be someone with results in modern times, people would be far less critical and worried about the game. Kingdom Hearts II came out in 2005. It's 2017. Considering his bad track record for directing HD games, the worries seem justified. Add in split parts, realistic character designs (how will Wall Market work with such graphics for example?), reworked battle system made to appeal to casual fans and not FFVII vets, and more, and this remake has a giant question mark on it.

It could turn out well and I mean, I love FFXV, but VIIr just has red flag after red flag all over it. These criticisms and worries may be unjustified and maybe misplaced in the end, but considering all available information it doesn't exactly build confidence in what they're doing, especially when many people just wanted a more traditional remake in the lines of REmake. So the criticism I think is warranted but I will not berudge anyone else who has trust in SE and their vision.

Another thing: I'm not an otaku and I find it weird anyone who knows the term would label themselves as one. That said, there's no guarantee in me buying like Axim said. I didn't get an FF between XIII and XV - that's five years. I can perfectly wait for them to release all of the split FFVII episodes and pack it into one box. I like disc switching. There's a lot more important things to support than a split up remake of a game I played twenty year ago (happy birthday bae). I really think Axim is mostly speaking for himself when he says "we" will buy it.

FFVII was my first rpg. So it's a cornerstone game for me. It's probably the most important game I've played in my time as a fan due to how much it ultimately influenced my tastes and showed me what games were capable of being. So I hope the project turns out well. It's a very special game to me and I'm wishing the team remaking it all the luck in the world.
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby south carmain » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:57 am

Raithos wrote:
south carmain wrote: After finishing FF15 I don't expect much out of the FF7 remake. The changes they make for "new players" just seem to bring down the overall experience for me.


I get tired of seeing that quote every time I boot it up lol. Its not necessarily a bad game, but they changed way to much of the FF formula for my tastes. I have to kill some monster and raise my fishing level up a bit more and the platinum is done. I don't think I will be back to see the added content later. Have you seen all the stuff SE said will change? Its going to feel like such a different game than what we played. New cut scenes, dialogue changes, chapter 13 is getting redone and more.

Not only that but the changed stuff were kinda weak compared to other games (mainly the witcher 3, maybe I wouldn't have felt the same if I played FF15 first though) the side quests felt repetitive and uninteresting, the herbs and ores might as well have not been there at all and the character specialties felt kinda useless and boring to level up considering how long it takes and the lack of different ways for doing so. It felt like a poor attempt to mix it with WRPG elements to try to appeal to everyone but I think it would have been a much better game had they just gone back to the PS1 era "open world" formula instead of copying elements from games that have been critically acclaimed the past few years. The dumbest thing they did for me though was force you to watch an anime and movie to get the whole story, it just made the game's story feel incomplete and I really didn't find it interesting enough to go watch them. Oh yeah and another thing that annoyed me about the game was that it would show you future places you would visit in the loading screens which kinda ruined the feeling of discovery when I got there for me, probably a stupid complaint but I loved being amazed and surprised at the new cities and locations the old FF games would take me too.

Overall yeah it's a good game but one I'll forget fast.
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby south carmain » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:06 am

Himuro wrote:6. The remake itself. Like I said above, I personally just wanted something REmake style. Something that takes FFVII, gives it some modern graphics, rebalanced game difficulty, new features that completely change how the game is meant to be played (like how much of a game changer Crimson heads are in REmake), with the game rearranged so that playing it feels fresh to old players, and the ultimate version of the game but very conservative and traditional as far as remakes go. Some people just wanted a legitimate remaster - re-doing the backgrounds in HD, new models, something more along the lines of remakes like FF1 in FF Origins or maybe FFX/X-2 HD. Some people wanted a full on remake with modern gameplay like an open world and action rpg battle system. There's no way, in all this time of teasing and wishing, that the remake could possibly satisfy every one of these demographics.

Pretty much this, you can't go wrong with the original formula just changing some gameplay elements to suit modern times, the graphics and adding some content for old school players to have something new to try in it in addition to an upgraded experience of the original. Even SEGA understood that with Kiwami and we all know how hard headed they can be at understanding what people want.

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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Himuro » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:29 am

south carmain wrote:
Himuro wrote:6. The remake itself. Like I said above, I personally just wanted something REmake style. Something that takes FFVII, gives it some modern graphics, rebalanced game difficulty, new features that completely change how the game is meant to be played (like how much of a game changer Crimson heads are in REmake), with the game rearranged so that playing it feels fresh to old players, and the ultimate version of the game but very conservative and traditional as far as remakes go. Some people just wanted a legitimate remaster - re-doing the backgrounds in HD, new models, something more along the lines of remakes like FF1 in FF Origins or maybe FFX/X-2 HD. Some people wanted a full on remake with modern gameplay like an open world and action rpg battle system. There's no way, in all this time of teasing and wishing, that the remake could possibly satisfy every one of these demographics.

Pretty much this, you can't go wrong with the original formula just changing some gameplay elements to suit modern times, the graphics and adding some content for old school players to have something new to try in it in addition to an upgraded experience of the original. Even SEGA understood that with Kiwami and we all know how hard headed they can be at understanding what people want.



Right?

Many people just wanted a bloody regular ass remake and now we're not going to get it because Nomura and his buddies have sticks up their butts about "vision" of a twenty year old game. Many people just wanted the same FFVII but better. Now there will only be Lego FFVII and action rpg FFVII. We are now never going to get an upgraded FFVII. They are billing it as a totally different thing aimed at new audiences when it's old fans who have been asking for a remake.

Even worse, the original games English translation was horrendous. And yet in all of this time we still haven't gotten an official re-translation. So really, we have awfully translated Lego FFVII and new action rpg FFVII. Lots of people just wanted the same game with a new, more professional translation, better graphics, updated battle system, and the works. If SE had bothered to not cheap out on the FFVII Steam and PS4 releases and retranslated the game, I think this would be a easier to swallow for a lot of people.

So I'm likely to not bother getting the remake for multiple reasons and if I do it will be after the fact when all of it is one box.
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby OL » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:51 am

To me, I just don't understand the point of even remaking it if you're not going to give it a full generational overhaul. Sure, you can mention REmake as an example of a great remake, and yeah, it totally is. But it's only one generation removed from the original (not even a decade apart), not to mention it was made before any major upgrades had ever been made in its series (RE4 hadn't even been made yet). It's only natural that REmake would retain fixed camera angles and tank controls; the series hadn't done anything else yet. If REmake had been made after the release of RE4, you can bet it would have been fully-3D and control just like RE4.
Meanwhile the FFVII remake is three generations removed from its original. Twenty years.
In the interim time the series has run the gamut of JRPG styles, from the same ATB system it always had (FFVIII, FFIX), to simple turn-based (FFX), to MMO-style combat (FFXI, FFXII, FFXIV), to real-time (Crisis Core, Type-0, FFXV).
Let's face it, if they just put together the kind of thing you're proposing -- especially in this day and age, of the crying, whiny gaming community -- they'd be accused of putting forth the laziest effort possible. They have to do something to put it more on the level with their more recent efforts. The goal is to make it every bit as cutting edge and impacting as the original was all those years ago. Otherwise, how is the new audience going to understand what was so great about the original? We were there, so we get it, but they'd need something genuinely current-gen.
Square is aiming a little too high, absolutely. But at least they're aiming to give us a new experience. I have no problem with that.

For that matter, I don't see what's wrong with just playing the original game anyway, if that's what you want. Yeah, the graphics are dated; that happens with age. And sure, the translation is a bit rough, but it's not hard to understand, nor are we really missing out on much of anything by only having the original.
The game is a classic, and there's a reason we love it; because it was already great. We don't even need a remake, really. We already have the original.
So yeah, in my eyes, I just don't see the point if they aren't going to give it a major overhaul.

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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Himuro » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:55 am

REmake is still very much overhaul, I'd say. I's debatable whether it's a "major" overhaul but ultimately It's the same game but at the same NOT the same game if you get my drift. You play REmake and RE1 completely differently. REmake has new puzzles a completely different mansion layout, new game structure, altered gameplay that makes it familiar but completely new at the same time. I think it's how a game remake should be handled.

The translation in English is terrible. I played it in Japanese last year and it's a literal translation with zero in the way of localization. It makes things confusing by calling characters "clones" when they clearly aren't for example, which bogs up the story and creates confusion.

FF 1-6 have been remade in some form multiple times. But FFVII, their most famous game doesn't. And when it is re-released it's completely half assed.

I'm not sure why you think the original is good enough. Almost every game remake in existence is made for the original fans in mind. Wonder Boy Dragon's Trap looks fantastic partly due to its strict adherence to the original. Why does it need a major overhaul to be worth doing? Fans wanted it to be remade and every FF from 1-6 has been remade in some form at one point or another. Why is this too much to ask for regarding FFVII? What makes FFVII so special that they can't make a regular game remake and that it needs a complete overhaul? What is the point of remaking a game if it's a complete overhaul? Unless it's a bad game, a complete overhaul seems completely unnecessary. Remember, this is a game. People like the rules of and how that game plays. If the original were such a classic, a complete overhaul would be unnecessary. Nothing justifies the "it's not worth doing unless it's completely different" mindset. Especially regarding FFVII, which has been the most requested game remake of all time.

Why do you feel it's pointless? Because there's the original? The original is highly flawed. The translation, as said, is poor. The game difficulty could use upgrading, and I'd even suggest a hard mode for vets. Some of the story could use some extra detail. Characters like Yuffie and Vincent could use better integration into the story. The original is great and all but it's not end all be all, and it's certainly not perfect. There's loads of additions and things that could be done to make a better game without a complete and utter rehaul.

Again, what justifies this?

You argue that gamers would call a REmake styled remake to be lazy, but I disagree. REmake is THE gold standard for game remakes. I honestly most people would be completely fine with modern graphics, a better detailed story, voice acting, a better balanced difficulty, and rearranged game flow. People would cream their pants. When REmake got the HD treatment people STILL put it on the pedastal it deserves as the champion of how a game remake should be done. But somehow doing that for FFVII would result in whiny fans? I don't think so.

You know what was lazy, though? Releasing FFVII on ps4 with slightly better models and the same exact terrible translation. And fans still gobbled it up.
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Hyo Razuki » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:27 am

No matter what way we look at it, a 2017 release for FF 7 Remake seems very unlikely considering those statements. It also seems they're gonna milk the cash cow to the max and split this up into multiple parts.

This is a problem of the industry in general and the reason there were so many remakes this generation was that a lot of publishers thought console gaming was dead after the extremely long-lived PS3 generation and they basically didn't expect PS4 and X Bone to be that successful.

The only thing i can say is, this generation favors the patient probably more than any earlier one. We need to stop being manipulated into buying. My advice would be: do not preorder, don't buy any season pass bullshit, wait for all parts of the game to be released in one box, like Himuro said, and maybe buy a used copy of it or wait till it's on sale on the PS store. Wait for reviews to come out.

There are so many options and it's been 20 years since FF 7. No need to rush things. Who cares about an extra year or two? Hell, this thing might even still get cancelled alltogether. Wait how it all plays out and then make your purchase (or not).

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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby AnimeGamer183 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:35 pm

Raithos wrote: You're looking at that the wrong way man. There is no Squaresoft side. You can't split the company down the middle like that to make a point. Its been Square Enix since 2003 and they have a great development turn around with the exception of two games. Even if you don't want to count them for whatever reason, XIII-2, Lighting Returns, FF7 Crisis Core, FF Type-0 and World of Final Fantasy are full fledged titles. That's not even counting the 3 PSP remakes, the DS titles or Final Fantasy Explorers for 3DS. Or all of the PC ports.

Yeah Kingdom Hearts 2 came out in 2006, but since then we've gotten what 6 or 7 "spin offs"? And dude every single one is cannon. You have to play them if you want the complete story. What does it honestly matter if it has a 3 behind it or not? The time between mainline numbered titles is irrelevant when you look at allll the other games in those series that have released. And that's only two of their series. Its not like SE is sitting on either franchise and not putting out games for it.

None of that changes if you like a game or not, just saying that regarding the development cycles.


I get what you are saying. But we are simply looking at this in 2 different ways. You seem to be looking at it more as a gamer only perspective and I am looking looking at it as a hybrid gamer/business perspective.

First things first, the main Final Fantasy games sell more than the sequels and when you abandon the main games to make sequels that sell less, what is Square really doing as a company? Losing money thats what. Also you cant build up the franchise, and I hate to beat the FFXIII dead horse, but when you make a sequel to an already controversial game, and dont give your audience some thing fresh, you can start to stall out the franchise. Imagine if FF15 was able to come out in say 2012 or 2013 just a few years after FFXIII and FFXIV and by now have FF16 already and development going for FF17 Every 3 years is a great FF window to try to abide by but 2010 and 2016 to get ff15 and it began as a game that was announced 10 years Prior? Yeah and what do you know? Even FF15 itself was originally one of the FFXIII series games. Im just ready to get past XIII/Fabula Nova Crystalis collective by now. I would be 100% fine with the sequels if they didnt stop focus on the main series. When X-2 was being made, XII was also. I think its a matter of priority and I dont think Square is handling that well for a while now.

Second, its easy to ignore the fact that Squaresoft and Enix were once 2 different companies with respective IPs, but alas it was the case, there fore yes there is more than 1 side of the company, since they merged, and while they are one entity now, the original IPs from before they merged are still separate due to the past history (which is what my points before were specifically talking about). Also they acquired Eidos which gives another depth to the company and side of it. I actually think the Eidos games are the best handled under the Square Enix banner these days, ironic its the only games developed in the west? See how that works?

Now, lets get to the mess that is Kingdom Hearts series. Biggest problem here was putting out all these entries on so many different platforms that is considered cannon, and still ignoring the main games. PS2, GBA, DS, PSP, 3DS, Cell Phones, How many gamers were really going to purchase all of these systems to see the entirety of the story back when these came out? Its a horrible business decision to do that and kind of bogs down the series because its literally all over the place. So what did they have to do to make up for this? Release 1.5, 2.5, and 2.8, only problem now though is you start making people double down on the rare cases of those who did buy that extra system to play one of the games on the many formats they came out on. so making 1.5 HD and beyond was actually a great decision for the company, but kind of screws over gamers a little bit. I guess it was kind of pointless to have even bought Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance that were the bigger releases on the separate platforms BUT at least they are better versions of those games with the recent collections, and the new people that are jumping on board make everything easily accessible (which im assuming is alot because they sold like hot cakes), but again you run into the problem of buying games over and over. Which is actually a very smart business move in the long run and cleans up the mess they made when all these games initially came out. KH is milked heavily.

Square has had problems any way you look at it, and it seems they have struggled to manage their company, and keep their fan bases happy at the same time, and hope they dont piss off more people. Its hard to watch, every one was clamoring over wanting an FFVII Remake, we get it and there are all these problems and thats very unfortunate, but Square has done this to themselves so what can we really do? i just hope they arent diverting focus from FFXVI and beyond to make the FFVII Remake. I feel like FF fans are just itching for something new we havent seen, and I have no idea when we are going to actually get that.
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Raithos » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:34 pm

south carmain wrote:
Not only that but the changed stuff were kinda weak compared to other games (mainly the witcher 3, maybe I wouldn't have felt the same if I played FF15 first though) the side quests felt repetitive and uninteresting, the herbs and ores might as well have not been there at all and the character specialties felt kinda useless and boring to level up considering how long it takes and the lack of different ways for doing so. It felt like a poor attempt to mix it with WRPG elements to try to appeal to everyone but I think it would have been a much better game had they just gone back to the PS1 era "open world" formula instead of copying elements from games that have been critically acclaimed the past few years. The dumbest thing they did for me though was force you to watch an anime and movie to get the whole story, it just made the game's story feel incomplete and I really didn't find it interesting enough to go watch them. Oh yeah and another thing that annoyed me about the game was that it would show you future places you would visit in the loading screens which kinda ruined the feeling of discovery when I got there for me, probably a stupid complaint but I loved being amazed and surprised at the new cities and locations the old FF games would take me too.

Overall yeah it's a good game but one I'll forget fast.


I'm finishing off some post game stuff just messing around now. I really think it had potential to be one of the best in the series but fell extremely short. The story from the movie should of been in game. It 100% could have been 4-5 playable hours with cut-scenes, no excuses for that one. I feel sorry for the people who are playing and didn't watch it.

I haven't watched the anime, which is probably why I think the cast of party members is the worst in the series. Snow, Hope, Sazh and Vanille had way, way more character development than these three in FFXV. Several game play elements feel like after thoughts and serve little to no point (sidequests, materials, half of the party skills, etc). Story wise, its going slow and steady then BAM cranked to 11 out of nowhere.

Overall it just feels rushed. I really wonder what sort of stuff they will add/change with the new cut-scenes and dialogue. I agree about the loading screens too. There will be an inevitable video on YouTube documenting it all so we don't have to play it again :)
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby south carmain » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:41 pm

There's something sadisticly funny about waiting a decade for a game that felt rushed though, for some reason I can't even be mad at that it just amuses me.
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Raithos » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:53 pm

True lol. Wait until Shenmue III releases...
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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Riku Rose » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:52 am

AnimeGamer183 wrote:First things first, the main Final Fantasy games sell more than the sequels and when you abandon the main games to make sequels that sell less, what is Square really doing as a company? Losing money thats what.


Umm, the sequels took about 18 months each to make as Square is able to reuse assets already created. They may sell less in total but the profit margin may be higher due to the decrease in development cost. Also Square made $150 million in the last 6 months so I don't think you need to tell them how to make money.

I would be 100% fine with the sequels if they didnt stop focus on the main series. When X-2 was being made, XII was also. I think its a matter of priority and I dont think Square is handling that well for a while now.


The XIII sequels didn't delay XV. It was being made by two different teams similar to X-2 and XII.

Now, lets get to the mess that is Kingdom Hearts series. Biggest problem here was putting out all these entries on so many different platforms that is considered cannon, and still ignoring the main games. PS2, GBA, DS, PSP, 3DS, Cell Phones, How many gamers were really going to purchase all of these systems to see the entirety of the story back when these came out? Its a horrible business decision to do that and kind of bogs down the series because its literally all over the place. So what did they have to do to make up for this? Release 1.5, 2.5, and 2.8, only problem now though is you start making people double down on the rare cases of those who did buy that extra system to play one of the games on the many formats they came out on. so making 1.5 HD and beyond was actually a great decision for the company, but kind of screws over gamers a little bit.


How are they making people double down? The collections are more there for people who didn't play the games on all the different systems and want to catch up with the series. If people double down it's because they want to. No one is ever forced to buy a game and the idea that companies screw people over by re-releasing something is ridiculous.

I guess it was kind of pointless to have even bought Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance that were the bigger releases on the separate platforms BUT at least they are better versions of those games with the recent collections,


So are you going to be pissed with SEGA if they make Shenmue HD since it screwed you over back in 1999? The PS4 wasn't even out when Dream Drop Distance came out on 3DS.

and the new people that are jumping on board make everything easily accessible (which im assuming is alot because they sold like hot cakes), but again you run into the problem of buying games over and over. Which is actually a very smart business move in the long run and cleans up the mess they made when all these games initially came out. KH is milked heavily.


So earlier you complained that Square is mismanaged but then said the way they treat this series is smart business...

Square has had problems any way you look at it, and it seems they have struggled to manage their company, and keep their fan bases happy at the same time, and hope they dont piss off more people.


FFXV sold enough copies in it's first day to make back the money for development costs and has been generally well received. As I said earlier the company made $150 profit in the last 6 months and had well recieved games like FFXV, Deus Ex, Hitman and I Am Setsuna in the past year. They also have around a million people paying to play their MMO every month. Square is doing fine as a company.

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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby Riku Rose » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:10 am

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Re: Final Fantasy Series News and Updates Thread

Postby OL » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:29 pm

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