Random Thoughts

[mue 26]

but then she cites Dishonored as an example. And if you've ever actually played Dishonored, you know that the brothel level is effectively used as a tool to show how awful the game's setting is. It's a hangout spot for amoral rich kids, and the degrading portrayal of the prostitutes is represented as a bad thing. Nothing about it is titillating. Whatserface is just taking umbrage with the mere presence of women in a degraded role, nevermind the fact that it's an aesthetic element meant to make you dislike the badguys even more.

Yeah, but you're missing the point. Regardless of all of that, Dishonored is another game with another fucking brothel level. And an inordinate amount of big budget games have a brothel level or are full of prostitutes. Seriously, think about how many feature them? So, yeah sure, they may have been using it to highlight "how awful the game's setting is", but it's a pretty uninspired way to do it. It's a trope. And that's what the whole video series is all about, highlighting these tropes and how they collectively reflect badly on women. It's that simple. And while I haven't played Dishonored, the whole "degrading portrayal of prostitutes" that you mention sure doesn't sound like a step in the right direction. In fact, that's how every game unfortunately portrays them.

In the end what these pseudo "feminists" want is censorship to conform to their ideal view of the industry which annoys me as the feelings of some people shouldn't mean that everyone else should be censored and conform to them.

How did you come to this conclusion? Thinking that what people like Anita want is censorship is just a massive misunderstanding. They want balance, not censorship. And the only way you can inspire and bring about balance, is to bring attention to the current state of total imbalance. She's not even saying that all these games that feature these tropes are bad or wrong, but she's saying there are far, far too many of them. And she's right. This has absolutely nothing at all to do with censoring any kind of artistic censorship. And to be honest, most of these games are just throwing these tropes in, because well, they're tropes, I doubt all these devs have a kind of artistic fascination with providing terrible representations of the sex industry, for example.

[AnimeGamer183]

If you want to talk about balance, men are the main targets for violence as it just may turn out, and not only that but men are portrayed pretty horribly in games too alot of the time, what a shocking coincedence right? So in order to have a "balance" you would actually have to put MORE violence and sexual portrayal towards women in games to get it up to par with what male characters do and are treated like in games too. I guess us men are just built to be able to take anything right? We can be beat up on and killed off in games no one says a peep, i mean thats the way its supposed to be right? Again, that whole fiasco is a crock of shit, that woman is sexist as fuck, fuck her. She has tunnel vision only for the female side of this argument, shes ignorant and honestly makes herself look like a fool at the end of the day.

[Raithos]

Again, that whole fiasco is a crock of shit, that woman is sexist as fuck, fuck her. She has tunnel vision only for the female side of this argument, shes ignorant and honestly makes herself look like a fool at the end of the day.

She also insults everyone who does not agree with her, and even some who side with her but have slightly different views. She's talked bad about some of the women writers in the industry, that have created some of the best narratives/titles we've seen in years. She judges people and lumps them into whatever category she sees fit. Shes single minded as hell, and quite frankly I'm beyond sick of hearing about this crap. She is one of the most judgmental, ignorant hypocrites I've ever seen on the internet. And there are a lot of stupid people on the internet.

[mue 26]

If you want to talk about balance, men are the main targets for violence as it just may turn out, and not only that but men are portrayed pretty horribly in games too alot of the time, what a shocking coincedence right? So in order to have a "balance" you would actually have to put MORE violence and sexual portrayal towards women in games to get it up to par with what male characters do and are treated like in games too. I guess us men are just built to be able to take anything right? We can be beat up on and killed off in games no one says a peep, i mean thats the way its supposed to be right? Again, that whole fiasco is a crock of shit, that woman is sexist as fuck, fuck her. She has tunnel vision only for the female side of this argument, shes ignorant and honestly makes herself look like a fool at the end of the day.

What's your point? That games often portray men badly too? Yeah, I agree. So what though, it doesn't change or negate the fact that games are still stuffed to brim with sexist tropes. And of course men (usually armed and far from submissive men, I might add) are going to be the main recipient of violence in games, since most games revolve around men. But stop trying to divert things. Yes there are plenty of other issues in games, racism, for example, being another big one. But can you not just accept that these sexist tropes in games are regressive and harmful? If you want proof of the damage they've done, you only need look at the reaction from that GamerGate bunch of nerds, and witness how sexism in our society has warped their fragile minds.

She also insults everyone who does not agree with her, and even some who side with her but have slightly different views. She's talked bad about some of the women writers in the industry, that have created some of the best narratives/titles we've seen in years. She judges people and lumps them into whatever category she sees fit. Shes single minded as hell, and quite frankly I'm beyond sick of hearing about this crap. She is one of the most judgmental, ignorant hypocrites I've ever seen on the internet. And there are a lot of stupid people on the internet

Link me to whatever convinced you of the fact that she's the most ignorant hypocrite on the internet, please?

[south carmain]

but then she cites Dishonored as an example. And if you've ever actually played Dishonored, you know that the brothel level is effectively used as a tool to show how awful the game's setting is. It's a hangout spot for amoral rich kids, and the degrading portrayal of the prostitutes is represented as a bad thing. Nothing about it is titillating. Whatserface is just taking umbrage with the mere presence of women in a degraded role, nevermind the fact that it's an aesthetic element meant to make you dislike the badguys even more.

Yeah, but you're missing the point. Regardless of all of that, Dishonored is another game with another fucking brothel level. And an inordinate amount of big budget games have a brothel level or are full of prostitutes.

That's because they focus on creating gritty atmospheres that are popular. If you're going to create a world with poverty, criminal and depressing themes why wouldn't you include prostitutes? The exploitation of women in the sex industry is very common in real life, I see prostitutes and brothels all the time when I'm in hackney so it's only normal to include them in themes where prostitutes are common.

In the end what these pseudo "feminists" want is censorship to conform to their ideal view of the industry which annoys me as the feelings of some people shouldn't mean that everyone else should be censored and conform to them.

How did you come to this conclusion? Thinking that what people like Anita want is censorship is just a massive misunderstanding. They want balance, not censorship. And the only way you can inspire and bring about balance, is to bring attention to the current state of total imbalance. She's not even saying that all these games that feature these tropes are bad or wrong, but she's saying there are far, far too many of them. And she's right. This has absolutely nothing at all to do with censoring any kind of artistic censorship. And to be honest, most of these games are just throwing these tropes in, because well, they're tropes, I doubt all these devs have a kind of artistic fascination with providing terrible representations of the sex industry, for example.

When you want to achieve balance by telling artists to change how they create their art then this is censorship. Also prostitutes aren't that common, if you avoid games that have a major focus on crime, corruption and poverty which are all themes linked directly to prostitution then you won't find prostitutes. Also assuming they are just tropes and have got nothing to do with setting the atmosphere of the game then devs are just putting them in there to cater to the audience they are aiming for so really in this case it comes down to "feminists" like anita being angry that devs won't cater to them despite being a minority instead of the wider audience.

[mue 26]

That's because they focus on creating gritty atmospheres that are popular. If you're going to create a world with poverty, criminal and depressing themes why wouldn't you include prostitutes? The exploitation of women in the sex industry is very common in real life, I see prostitutes and brothels all the time when I'm in hackney so it's only normal to include them in themes where prostitutes are common.

Yeah sure, but unlike the prostitutes you see in hackney, who are real people with real lives, the sex workers in these games are usually always nothing more than stereotypical cardboard cut-out props for sex and violence. You want to create a gritty game that's fine, you want to have prostitutes to make your gritty game more gritty that's fine too, but it would be nice if they'd make these prostitute characters more than the stereotypical props for sexual fantasy and violence that they currently are in games.

so really in this case it comes down to "feminists" like anita being angry that devs won't cater to them despite being a minority instead of the wider audience.

But these tropes are limiting games' audience. I'm sure there are a lot grown people who feel as uncomfortable as I do about gunning down helpless prostitutes who get in the crossfire of my brothel level shootout, or mechanics which involve being able to sleep with prostitute in a mini-game. I'm sure many would appreciate gritty games that didn't include juvenile depictions of women.

[south carmain]

Sure it would be nice to have games with deep stories that look in to the lives of characters in a deep and meaningful way but let's face it, video game writers aren't exactly the best of their discipline and to create deep meaningful messages about the sex industry and modern slavery is just beyond the capabilities of most of them not to mention the average person that plays video games just wouldn't be too interested in it.

But these tropes are limiting games' audience.

I disagree, there are plenty of games that feature strong female protagonists (metroid, beyond good and evil, tomb raider, the longest journey are a few examples) yet they are always outsold by far by games that include strong sexual themes and violence because that's what the majority of gamers want these days. GTA5 made 1 billion in revenue in just a few days and became the highest selling game of all time for a reason.

Now do I think this is a good thing? not really, though I enjoy GTA and violent games in general I would like the industry to have higher standards in story telling and to be more diverse too however it's not by telling artists to stop creating said games that you will achieve that. As all industries the video game industry is reflective of the market, when the consumers want more games with female protagonists and deeper stories then the industry will naturally change to reflect that demand but the approach that anita and co are taking to the issue is rather arrogant especially that the industry has plenty of good games that fit their demands already and compared to demand for said games the industry is already more than enough balanced.

[OL]

I even think the whole "balance" issue is silly anyway. Where in life is there ever the kind of balance that she's supposedly rallying for? Movies, tv, music, and books are all completely lopsided industries, catering more in one direction than the other, oftentimes rotating the audiences they pander to. There's never any "balance" in the entertainment world, and it's a silly, naive notion to pretend that we could ever make it so.
And yet, it's never focused solely on one thing either. There's always a variety to choose from. And if somehow, after doing the proper research, there's absolutely nothing that appeals to you?
That's an issue with the individual, not the industry.

Personally, I think a far greater tactic in initiating change is not to lambast what you think is bad, but to celebrate that which you think is good. As a "feminist blogger," I think she'd make a far greater impact if she pointed out examples of things done "right" (or at least, what she believes to be things done right). As it is now, I only get the impression that she thinks everything is bad and wrong. I have no idea what kind of game would actually be palatable to her. And if she's going to make such a fuss over this particular issue, that's kind of a problem. Hell, I don't even get the impression that she likes games to begin with.
Before even getting into this kind of conversation, I was already of the mind that last generation offered far more variation and attention to the issue of female roles in gaming than had ever happened before. There are tons of excellent examples of rounded women in gaming over the past several years. Elena and Chloe from the Uncharted series, Faith from Mirror's Edge, Nilin from Remember Me, Melissa from Siren: Blood Curse, Kat from Gravity Rush, Delilah from Dishonored, Zero from Drakengard 3. They all play different roles than what women normally did in gaming previously, and represent a huge amount of new variety in that regard.
I believe focusing on the virtues of what we actually like inspires greater change than pointing out everything we don't.

[south carmain]

From what I can see from her videos her idea of balance is giving the minority the same amount of focus as the majority which in an industry guided by the free market that's just impossible.

[beedle]

of course video games don't portray women well, they are designed by and for man-children. improve the writing and the production and the more nuanced, less misogynistic content will follow.

sarkeesian is fucked though, to be honest, i don't like her at all. but then also fuck these gamergate people who send all this bile at her and that. actually the ones who aren't sending bile as well tbh. in fact fuck every one and everything to do with video games, they need to end.

[SaM_4000]

In my view she is just exploiting this feminist propaganda to the extreme and the fact that she has drawn so many people in is just embarrassing. It almost makes me think I could earn a living just making videos where I nitpick certain imbalances in pop-culture.

To be honest this whole topic is ridiculous there are far more important issues in life than this.

[AnimeGamer183]

mue is trolling right? please say he is.

[south carmain]

To be honest this whole topic is ridiculous there are far more important issues in life than this.

How can you justify posting on a video game forum with that kind of mentality? Nothing here is important, the few discussions here on important subjects aren't by experts either so basically pointless. What's ridiculous is telling people they shouldn't spend their time discussing certain subjects because there are others that are deemed more important.

mue is trolling right? please say he is.

Just because he has a different opinion doesn't make him a troll.

[SaM_4000]

To be honest this whole topic is ridiculous there are far more important issues in life than this.

How can you justify posting on a video game forum with that kind of mentality? Nothing here is important, the few discussions here on important subjects aren't by experts either so basically pointless. What's ridiculous is telling people they shouldn't spend their time discussing certain subjects because there are others that are deemed more important.

Well, I meant her issue sspecifically the fact that she has generated such a following and people are paying money to hear more is just absurd, there are far more important issues in life and especially to donate money to than this.

I wasn't attempting to be a forum dictator. The word "topic"in that sentence was just my poor choice of words.

[south carmain]

oh sorry, my bad then. yeah I agree that the 100k and following she got could be used for much more important issues for feminism rather than women being sexually depicted in video games. Between female circumcision, acid attacks, forced marriages (including for children), inability to access proper education due to gender segregation or even pay inequality the resources of this whole thing really could have been used for better causes. To be honest I find people like Anita who create issues over the tiniest things in the name of feminism really detrimental to the movement.