Shenmue Dojo

It's a difficult one to call. They ALL are. A lot of it is in the beholder. I use terms like "Paki shop" innocently enough (A shop owned and staffed by persons of Pakistani origin), but wouldn't actually call a Paki a Paki, unless we were friends....PFFT YEAH LIKE I'D EVER BE FRIENDS WITH ONE OF "THEM"!

Point is, certain sections of people seem to take more offense at things than others. A Paki would more than likely be offended if you called him a Paki, no matter how innocent it was, but if a Scots person got called a Jock, chances are they wouldn't mind, unless they were a knuckle dragger that had those kinds of "problems", they unfortunately do exist here...

I'm not going to lie, I do get a bit annoyed when I always hear some people talk about their dream utopian world where people can use racial slurs freely and no one gets upset. Because, well....it's just all a bit stupid isn't isn't it? I'd much rather a utopian world where no one used annoying racial slurs at all. I'm a pretty laid back guy, and I wish people would get less offended about matters regarding God and politics and other such stuff, but generalized derogatory slurs that were always used to belittle and insult? Yeah I think people are entitled to feel offence at those.

I also think it's silly to compare the term "paki" to "scot", the words obviously have totally different contexts, and it's not just that one is used to describe Scottish and the other Pakistani. Claiming that it's OK to use the word paki because it's just short for Pakistani, is literally the kind of argument a school child would give as justification for use of the word. And I say literally, because I have seen a 10 yr old use that very same excuse. Pakistani people do not call themselves "paki's" for short, it's a term that British people over here started using in a hostile and racist context, for example "paki bashing". The origins of the term were not positive or matter of fact. And the word is not restricted to use on Pakistani people, as anyone with a brown and Asian complexion are often called paki's. Do you even known if the people who own your local "paki shop" are even Pakistani? When you consider this, I think it's pretty easy to understand why it's brings up negative emotions in people.

I don't know much about the history of the term "jock", but I can't imagine it's particularly comparable to other racial slurs such as nigger. I've never heard of any Scottish person over here be violently assaulted for being a "jock".

And the same thing applies to the term "faggot" as far as I'm concerned. It's just another derogatory slur used against a different section of society. And what you seem to fail to consider Qwerty, is that these types of derogatory terms often have a high chance of bringing up painful memories in people, even if they are not the type of person that derogatory word is typically used for. How do you know that person you were talking to didn't actually have a gay friend who was beaten up or maybe stoned to death while others chanted "faggot" at him? You may think I'm being overly dramatic, but stuff like this happens, and you'd be surprised just how many bad memories in people you can bring up by using the wrong derogatory slur, even if it's only in jest. This is why I always avoid using such childish language, especially when I'm with people I don't know extremely well. Just because you aren't offended, it doesn't mean they don't have every right to be.

it's on a similar level to racism. Most people I know aren't racist, and it's really not that big of a deal now.

Nope, racism is still a very big problem.


Also, what the hell is going on with Kiba?

Obvious bender.

Need I post a picture of you Qwerty?



Nope thats not Ray Winstone, that's qwerty, have a look at his pic in the gallery thread for more proof that he's living in a glass house:



Same guy.

Er, not quite, I'm neither fat nor old and that beard was grown for a fancy dress party, so evidently I no longer adorn it. Nice try though! Let's now have a picture of you, tit for tat and all that shite. Or are you scared? I notice you don't have one up in the member's gallery.

Oh, and...

mue 26 wrote:I think it's very obvious who Qwerty looks like:



Seriously, look at his picture then look at this. You'll wont know which ones which!

You played your trump card some time ago bruv and no-one agreed with you then. Fail.

mue 26 wrote: "paki" to "scot", the words obviously have totally different contexts

No they don't, in the way that I'm/my peers are using it.

mue 26 wrote:and it's not just that one is used to describe Scottish and the other Pakistani.

Yes they do, in the way that I'm/my peers are using it.

mue 26 wrote:Patronising diatrible

Nice..?

mue 26 wrote:And the word is not restricted to use on Pakistani people, as anyone with a brown and Asian complexion are often called paki's. Do you even known if the people who own your local "paki shop" are even Pakistani? When you consider this, I think it's pretty easy to understand why it's brings up negative emotions in people.

I do agree with this a lot, however. I'm not one of those who calls all "brown" people "Pakis". A shop owned by Indians, to me, is not a "Paki shop", however far too many don't make the distinction.

mue 26 wrote:I've never heard of any Scottish person over here be violently assaulted for being a "jock".

Trust me I bet it has happened, it's just it doesn't make the international news, and probably happens a lot less than other types of hate-crime.

Have to hand it to you, that was tremendously patronising! All that stuff about the Utopian world, yeah, it'd be great if everyone got along and nobody said rude words, but all that stuff about the origins of the word etc.? Totally not needed. I only use that word limitedly, and around here at least, proper racism isn't really a problem (a lot less than you'd expect, this being Scotland and all that, where we're all meant to be incredibly racist and racialist), so the Pakistanis that are here probably haven't even heard the shortened form used in too huge a negative contrast in their lives. The world, or this part of it, has been moved on from that for a long time now. It's probably because whites are still a definite majority here, so there's none of the sort of "problems" that some cities have, which is why me and people I know, can use such a word guilt free.

Yes they do, in the way that I'm/my peers are using it.

That may be how you and your mate's use the term, but the word isn't used in such a way in larger society. In response to the claim that you were once fond of using the word paki on this internet forum, you described the term as if it's normally used as a perfectly polite short hand for Pakistani. Which it is not. I'm not accusing you of having racist intentions, but while it is true in the very literal sense that paki is short for pakistani, I think it's a bit misleading to simply compare it to the term "scot" and leave it at that. Especially if it's being used on public forum or whatever.

All that stuff about the Utopian world, yeah, it'd be great if everyone got along and nobody said rude words, but all that stuff about the origins of the word etc.? Totally not needed.

I only mentioned that stuff (about the origin of the word and context) as I was trying explain why it is that Pakistani's are more offended by word Paki than Scottish people are by the word "Scott" or "Jock". As you mentioned that Pakistani people are more easily offended, but you didn't take the further context of location (UK) and usage of the term into account. So, it's not really that Pakistani's are more easily offended, it's just that the term paki is much more charged and offensive term, generally speaking.

can use such a word guilt free

I wasn't suggesting that you should be guilty, as long as you use it privately.

The word "bonerfide" paired with your avatar just sent me to the floor.

Come on then mue26. You can't give someone shit for their appearances and not provide others the opportunity to reciprocate.

Did anyone ever tell you you kinda look like Val Kilmer for reals? And not the new fat Kilmer, the batman Kilmer.
Doing that adorable pouty face. Get over here!

Rakim wrote: Did anyone ever tell you you kinda look like Val Kilmer for reals? And not the new fat Kilmer, the batman Kilmer.
Doing that adorable pouty face. Get over here!

No, but... fancy a bum?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebXGZQLsQJw[/youtube]

Rakim wrote: Did anyone ever tell you you kinda look like Val Kilmer for reals? And not the new fat Kilmer, the batman Kilmer.
Doing that adorable pouty face. Get over here!

One of the math teachers I had at college went to high school with him and Kevin Spacey and they were in plays with him too.

Hows that for life, they become famous actors and he becomes a math teacher.

^
Just because he's a math teacher doesn't mean he can't become famous.

A guy named Rich Franklin was a math teacher and he went on to become a two-time middleweight champion in the UFC.