Politics

[Mr. Frozen]

The talk on the media took me right back to the Iraq war buildup in 2003, so I immediately thought false-flag.

Apparently Trump phoned Putin to tell Assad that this attack was gonna take place though?

Yea, to make sure his intentions were clear. Basically Trump saying "Hey some fuckwad used chemical weapons that we told them not to use so we gonna bomb the air base that the weapons were launched from, cool?" Imagine the shitstorm that would occur if the base was fully occupied with Russian and Syrian forces? The media and people are already trying to spin this shit as the start of Trump invading Syria.

Also, Frozen, since you know a lot about this stuff, I've seen a lot of comments today in reply to other people comparing this situation to Iraq, saying that Iraq DID have WMDs but they hid them under the ground in Syria when the inspectors came the last time before the invasion. Any truth to that? Some of them even suggest that the gas missiles Saddam hid were found by Assad and used all the times he has "apparently" done so already...
Would sure seem strange that the WMDs were considered important enough to invade a country for, but then to stop caring about them and looking for them the second Saddam was taken down...

I think Iraq is still a pertinent point mind you. Look how awfully it's ended up, and how much debt the main countries are now in. If UK people actually WANT another potentially never-ending Middle Eastern war with full UK involvement (unfortunately such saps who actually genuinely do believe that the UK and USA are white knights above reproach and full of goodness and therefore SHOULD be Policing the world actually do exist), then they'd better NEVER EVER complain the next time the govt doesn't have enough money for services like the NHS that we as taxpayers NEED, way more than we "need" a war with someone who may be bad, but isn't a threat to the UK or USA.

If a messy shooting war that involves Russia then happens, I for one will absolutely dodgy any draft or requirement to start working at a munitions factory. Not a chance I am gonna have my life put in even more risk just because some politicians couldn't be fucked to keep their egos in check...

Likely, but unverified. A couple of Iraqi generals claim that in the time frame between 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, Saddam moved his weapons to Syria. Makes sense considering Saddam was supposed to dismantle his entire inventory of chemical weapons in the 90s and the US finding this inventory would be a nightmare. However, the US knew that there were still old chemical weapons in Iraq. The CIA literally has been buying these weapons from an Iraqi seller in order to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on them. Due to the age of the weapons, they were not as potent as freshly manufactured weapons. Sarin gas is nasty stuff, if a person is exposed to high enough concentrations of the gas, it will stay on their clothes for a while and kill off anyone who tries to help the victim.

The first responders weren't affected by the sarin gas, which suggests that the weapons used had low potency, which is consistent with a weapon that is 40 years old, that used a compound with high sarin purity at the time of its creation.

I don't think this situation is similar to Iraq, though. A lot of the Iraq war business was fueled by the attacks on 9/11. It was a really complex web that is a conspiracy theorists wet dream. Today we do not have the same bloodthirst that was spawned by 9/11 so there is no reason for the US to go forward with a full on invasion with this shit. Literally everyone except for some crazies at the top is tired with this bullshit in the middle east and it would be political suicide to invade.

[St. Elmo's Fire]

So you're saying the "Assad finding and using them" bit is most likely true? Or that it's possible the Iraqi dude sold some off before he made a deal with the CIA?

I hope you're very correct on the last part too. I do think civilians being massacred is bad, but I also think the world which is already burdened in debt and quite a lot of bile and hatred doesn't need a new huge expense like this. The widespread anti-Russia and anti-Syria rhetoric makes me paranoid about some more evil shit about to go down. I was ranting like a crazy before, but I did mean the bit about my taxes being used more wisely. Sure, some well off people pay loads more taxes than others and could probably afford private healthcare so should actually pay LESS health taxes, technically, but not everyone can do that. Poorer people pay taxes too, on the assumption that it's paying for essentials, our systems may seem crazy to most Americans, but we actually don't mind paying the high taxes we do for such services. They are already taking a pounding, we can't blame the govt too much because it doesn't have the cash it did a few decades ago, which is why it makes me rant-angry about our leaders pretending we're still a big empire by sending our assistance and/or interference to many places usually at quite fantastic expense...

[shredingskin]

Now the media is sucking trump balls because of the attack??

WTF is wrong with your country ??

[Mr357]

Now the media is sucking trump balls because of the attack??

WTF is wrong with your country ??

The media will say whatever they're told to. If Isra- I mean, their bosses want a war in the Middle East, they'll push for it 100%.

[shredingskin]

So the new wikileaks pretty much confirms that the DNC russia hacking was a false flag.

And also gives away that the DNC probably killed seth rich.

TBH you guys dodged a bullet with trump, but he's a puppet and doesn't know it.

[KiBa]

Now the media is sucking trump balls because of the attack??

WTF is wrong with your country ??

Nothing's wrong with our country. Well, there's a lot wrong, but not what seems wrong. The entire apparatus you call 'the media', from its bossmen to the AV cables, is a transnational corporation with its own beliefs and goals quite unrelated to what Americans think, what you think, the truth, or even just any facts whatsoever.

TBH you guys dodged a bullet with trump, but he's a puppet and doesn't know it.

He knows it. He just likes being on TV in a starring role. Wouldn't you?

[Mr. Frozen]

So you're saying the "Assad finding and using them" bit is most likely true? Or that it's possible the Iraqi dude sold some off before he made a deal with the CIA?

The weapons moved to Syria (if what the generals said about Saddam moving weapons was true) were just a part of Saddam's stockpile. The Iraqi seller got a hold of some of these weapons (either before the move, or was left behind after the move), which were sold to the us. I wouldn't say Assad "found" the weapons because he sure as shit knew that they were located in his country. Again, all of this is all conjecture because this intel was never verified. As far as I know, at least.

TBH you guys dodged a bullet with trump, but he's a puppet and doesn't know it.

Trump is as much of a puppet as any other world leader who is forced into decisions because of the actions of others. I actually think Trump is smart enough to not blindly get shoehorned into what people want him to do, though (cue laughter from the left). This Syria mess is his first test.

[Ziming]

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[ys]

For capital R Republicans, you live in a country that's being flooded with mexican drug cartels and suicidal middle-easterns...
For capital D Democrats, you live in a country that's rapidly changing into the Russian-led Fourth Reich led by Der Orangemensch...
It's making life pretty bonkers for everyone caught between those extremes.

True. I've noticed that keeping a more neutral stance on Facebook actually made people from both sides get angry at me.

All things considered, I think the decision to launch the missiles was the best one for Trump, and is a decision that just about any other president would've made. The missile launch was a response to the alleged use of chemical weapons. If Trump did nothing the Russian operative bullshit intensifies, other world leaders view him as weak and indecisive, and maybe more chemical weapon attacks occur. If Trump attacks he demolishes the Russian narrative, is seen as decisive, and at least one facility with chemical weapons is destroyed. The Russians can get pissed off, but what are they gonna do? Launch nukes at the US and start WWIII?

It's a very difficult situation but I also think that it might have been the best option. It made me think of a Reagan speech where he talks about the fact that you sometimes have to make a stand.

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By the way, it's interesting to see the contrast between the level of discussions here and those on Facebook. On average longer posts with more substance versus short ones with insults and/or dumb arguments.

[shredingskin]

Why are democrats now so happy with the prospect of WWIII ??

There's not a single reason why either Assad or Putin would employ chemical weapons, but apparently it's totally logical that they did it (at least for MSM), why does a president have investments with weapon manufacturers ?.

TBH a new WW would be great for Argentina's economy, but I fail to see the rationale at any level (more than keep funneling weapons to ISIS through Saudi Arabia) and choke Russia gas economy (and a little bit of China's). I guess any of those are good reasons... not an easy sell to the public though.

Even now the threats with Good Korea are getting more heated.

I guess that's what happens when you get elected by a god of chaos.

Based bant master Alex Jones>

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It's sad when this guy tells the truth more than the "real news".

Defense department briefing live>

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[Sonikku]

Why are democrats now so happy with the prospect of WWIII ??

This seems like a pretty extreme generalization in my opinion. I'm a registered Democrat and a third World War is the last thing I would want, primarily because I don't think it would be gangbusters for the economy like you seem to think it would be on account of the whole super-powers-with-nukes thing. War with countries too weak to put up much of a fight could be profitable for a handful of contractors, abit at great expense to everyone else. Even the perceived "threat" of war with a super power that never quite escalates to armed conflict could be profitable for some. But actual all out war with other countries with nukes would not end well for anyone.

As for Syria, I think the strikes were a mistake though I know I'm probably the sole person in the Dojo to think so. Trump did not hit the runways and they were back up and running in the span of a day. If the point was to send a message in the vein of "Kill your people with bombs, fine. But kill your people with chemicals and I'm gonna bomb you back" then I find it dubious that Assad would be dissuaded from such a message, especially when the runways were already back in use just 16 hours after the fact.

There's no way to know now, but on a personal level it seems fairly dubious to me that someone who by all accounts had the upper hand in a civil war would risk international involvement by doing something stupid with chemical weapons. A false flag attack conducted by the losing side would seem much more plausible. But with no investigation all we have is a lot of finger pointing and death. The whole situation is a quagmire with evil on all sides and I do not see any involvement from America having a good lasting impact on the region. Sometimes when you have a region with enemies on all sides it is better to let them all have at it with each other than to jump in for a piece of that yourself.

Involving ourselves in Iraq and Afghanistan has not really made us safer in my opinion. If anything, by bringing down Saddam we may have freed up Iran to fixate their energy on threatening us where as before they were distracted with Saddam. Involving ourselves in the conflicts of others has seemingly never ended in rosier outcomes, from the days of Eisenhower overthrowing the democracy of Iran and replacing it with a dictatorship to arming and training Osama Bin Laden. Or even today, many of the weapons in the hands of ISIS were made by us. I do not support the idea of arming and training all these rebel groups to fight proxy wars with our enemies because current cycle rebels more often than not become future cycle terrorists, a perpetual cycle of war making and profit.

[shredingskin]

So now China is warning N Korea to not do anything stupid all because Trump is pretty much a loose cannon ?

At this rate we'll have fucking peace in the middle east lol

[Mr. Frozen]

Trump just said we are not going into Syria, and Mattis made it clear that the missile strikes were in retaliation the the use of chemical weapons, enforcing rules that were put in place for the Obama administration. His full statement here:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ussia.html

Also, it looks like Trump is trying to bring back coal jobs by making China reject coal from North Korea. I think coal is North Korea's top export so that will put them in a pretty bad state economically. Not too sure what is going to happen there.

Why are democrats now so happy with the prospect of WWIII ??

As for Syria, I think the strikes were a mistake though I know I'm probably the sole person in the Dojo to think so. Trump did not hit the runways and they were back up and running in the span of a day. If the point was to send a message in the vein of "Kill your people with bombs, fine. But kill your people with chemicals and I'm gonna bomb you back" then I find it dubious that Assad would be dissuaded from such a message, especially when the runways were already back in use just 16 hours after the fact.

The intention wasn't to destroy the runway, but rather cripple the base. Aircraft, supply depots, fueling stations, etc were destroyed. I know when one thinks of air base, they think of runways, but destroying the runways would've been a waste of missiles since they are such large targets that can easily be repaired in a matter of hours. According to this statement, 20% of Syria's operational aircraft were destroyed in that one strike. I don't know about you but I think knocking out 20% of their air force from hundreds(or maybe 1000+) of miles away sends a pretty big message.

[InsanityIsCrazy]

Why are democrats now so happy with the prospect of WWIII ??

Establishment Ds are desperate to get the ball rolling in their direction again (so desperate that even the stupid Kansas special election was drummed-up as a "possible nail-biter for Trump supporters!!!") and they remember how things went for the Iraq saga. I'd bet a paycheck that Pelosi would be giddy as a schoolgirl at the thought of reliving the G-Dubs years again, so they could drum up the anti-war rhetoric and try for massive gains.

Which is why the old guard need to stop the bullshitting and get some new blood that isn't suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

[St. Elmo's Fire]

I'm not sure if I've said it in this topic before, but surely with China quite enjoying their economic superpower status they have currently, the very second that NK threatens that for them, China will simply steamroll NK into oblivion? (ideally BEFORE their nutter of a neighbour has any nukes ready to make the short trip across the border into China).

I'm sure they'd rather take ownership of NK themselves and annex it than have the "allies" do the same right on their border too