Random Shenmue Thoughts

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Kiske » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:10 am

Fair and interesting review of Shenmue, mainly because the reviewer never played the game before this year.
It gives a good hint about how newcomers could/should react when discovering the saga.

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I find interesting that most of the gripes I read about Shenmue (like not beeing able to skip time forward or slow paced rythm) are the result of Yu Suzuki's choices and not conceptional flaws.

Similarly, most of the positive aspects of the game are the result of audacious decisions and could still be considered as a reference in modern gaming.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Giorgio » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:00 am

I have watched many reviews of Shenmue, bad and good, but this had something that put me off. After he got to the "game-play" section, and especially when he made a comment that in practice he fights "ah... with myself", then I stopped watching. Cynicism started to rise.

When in the first minutes you can't say Ryo's name (instead you go with "Ryoh"/"Raioh" and "Ryu"), how can you expect then to understand deeply what is it? Those kinds of players can only see the surface, and misleadingly present their hollow opinions/perspectives as facts.

Honestly, when someone goes in the direction to judge Shenmue based upon game-play, then they have completely lost the point (of its experience).
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby johnvivant » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:13 pm

Giorgio wrote:
When in the first minutes you can't say Ryo's name (instead you go with "Ryoh"/"Raioh" and "Ryu"), how can you expect then to understand deeply what is it? Those kinds of players can only see the surface, and misleadingly present their hollow opinions/perspectives as facts.



huge indication that he's not giving it the full care and attention that a fair review needs. if you don't like a game and find yourself starting to 'zone-out' then don't bother reviewing it at all.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby johnvivant » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:40 pm

shenmue legacy just tweeted this hilarious video of a player doing some amazing wall bouncing combos. enjoy.

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:04 pm

Lmfao that was funny as hell :)
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Gen » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:14 pm

Kiske wrote: Fair and interesting review of Shenmue, mainly because the reviewer never played the game before this year.
It gives a good hint about how newcomers could/should react when discovering the saga.

phpBB [video]


I find interesting that most of the gripes I read about Shenmue (like not beeing able to skip time forward or slow paced rythm) are the result of Yu Suzuki's choices and not conceptional flaws.

Similarly, most of the positive aspects of the game are the result of audacious decisions and could still be considered as a reference in modern gaming.


Yeah. That's one of the reasons why the series is so special. It's one of few AAA titles that goes beyond mere entertainment. Some of the things I like most about Shenmue are aspects that are more about immersion and being interesting rather than 'fun'.

It's sad that most games these days are so hand-holding and that the attention span or tolerance for slow pacing of people in general seem to be so low. Not to get into the whole 'games as art' debate but game critics, who are ones who should be recognizing new and innovative ways to use the medium, often seem to not have a very expansive view of what a game could actually be as a form of expression.

As an example of impatience, I see people calling for including a map-mode similair to GTA in potential HD-remakes of the games. Was it really that bothersome to go look at the town maps? (there were quite alot of them) And wasn't it part of the charm of exploring the environment? Being lost in Hongkong and feeling somewhat insecure in a new environment was surely something Yu Suzuki wanted the player to experience. A GTA-style map with everything pointed out would have changed that experience completely.

The pacing is absolutely brilliant, and unique to the series I think. It allowed the mundane aspects of life and the world to be communicated, and also made the game more epic.

About time-skipping, I can see why some people would be frustrated with not having that option. But I still respect Suzuki for not including it in the first game. It made it more immersive, more real.

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:22 pm

To Gen: Yea I agree 100%.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby ShenGCH » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:11 am

Gen wrote:As an example of impatience, I see people calling for including a map-mode similair to GTA in potential HD-remakes of the games. Was it really that bothersome to go look at the town maps? (there were quite alot of them) And wasn't it part of the charm of exploring the environment? Being lost in Hongkong and feeling somewhat insecure in a new environment was surely something Yu Suzuki wanted the player to experience. A GTA-style map with everything pointed out would have changed that experience completely.

The pacing is absolutely brilliant, and unique to the series I think. It allowed the mundane aspects of life and the world to be communicated, and also made the game more epic.

About time-skipping, I can see why some people would be frustrated with not having that option. But I still respect Suzuki for not including it in the first game. It made it more immersive, more real.

Man, a mini-map in Shenmue would absolutely suck; not to mention it would be deeply flawed, too, what with the game having so many time-sensitive occurrences which would nullify the very point of a mini-map in the first place.

When you're supposed to walk towards You Arcade at 7pm during your search for information about Charlie, for example: at no point in the game are you told to head in that specific direction except for the tid-bit of information that he hangs around the jacket shop at around that time. How would this be represented on a mini-map? An exclamation mark suddenly appearing on the map on top of You Arcade at 7pm? That would be extremely arbitrary in practice, and there would probably have to be a diary entry giving a hint of the even more specific location to justify the exclamation mark appearing in the first place. It's pointless and completely goes against the game's ethos of being grounded to reality and appreciating the player's freedom and sense of discovery, etc. It would also remove the need to talk to any of the NPCs for help and/or directions, too.

Besides, it's not as if the layout of the locations are exactly confusing or so extremely vast that a mini-map is required. Yamanose is boomerang-shaped; Sakuragaoka is shaped like an 'H'; Dobuita is shaped like an 'A'; and the harbour, while the biggest and potentially most confusing location in terms of layout, is pretty self-explanatory with the amount of signage plastered around the place. Plus, every location minus Yamanose features a map located somewhere in proximity. Remember the 'good old days' where players were expected to actually use their brains instead of going from one glowing waypoint to the next? If it worked perfectly fine back then, what's wrong with it now?

In other words: Gen, you're spot-on. Shenmue needs a mini-map as much as it needs a damn crouching button :P

EDIT: Dark Souls and Bloodborne are perfect examples of contemporary games that give very little - if any - hints as to where you should go next, hence why exploration and the sense of discovery in those games feels so organic and wonderful. In Dark Souls, as soon as you land in Firelink Shrine, there are three directions in which you can head at your will with absolutely no restriction: the Catacombs, Undead Burg, and New Londo Ruins. Only after getting absolutely massacred at two of the three does it occur to the player that Undead Burg is the right way to go at that point in the game.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:48 am

To Shen GTH: Yea exactly, this handholding BS needs to be done away with these day, and people wonderwhy kids are utterly braindead nowadays. It's because everything is done for them.

Seriously, I'll be extremely pissed off, if there a pointer in Shenmue 3 telling you what to do next, icons on top of NPCs pointing out they're important, ect.

Seriously It's so bad these days, games feel the need to tell you, you need to hit ______, button, to talk to a NPC or whatever, It's retarded. It's so bad, that there are games, that are pretty much nothing but tutorials sigh.

God forbid someone actually has to figure anything out them selves. Nintendo did a test, they had a ton of people play the 1st stage of SMB1, and their results state that 90% op gamers today, can't even finish the 1st stage of SMB1 http://www.p4rgaming.com/majority-of-ga ... ario-bros/

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby ShenGCH » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:01 am

Zoltor wrote: To Shen GTH: Yea exactly, this handholding BS needs to be done away with these day, and people wonderwhy kids are utterly braindead nowadays. It's because everything is done for them.

Seriously, I'll be extremely pissed off, if there a pointer in Shenmue 3 telling you what to do next, icons on top of NPCs pointing out they're important, ect.

Seriously It's so bad these days, games feel the need to tell you, you need to hit ______, button, to talk to a NPC or whatever, It's retarded. It's so bad, that there are games, that are pretty much nothing but tutorials sigh.

God forbid someone actually has to figure anything out them selves. Nintendo did a test, they had a ton of people play the 1st stage of SMB1, and their results state that 90% op gamers today, can't even finish the 1st stage of SMB1 http://www.p4rgaming.com/majority-of-ga ... ario-bros/

BioShock Infinite was the last game I played that hand-held so heavily it almost made me rage quit the game from that alone. I mean, the developers (the artists especially) created such a lush, gorgeous world full to the brim with all sorts of eye candy and NPCs doing things off the beaten path, you'd think they'd want players to take in the atmosphere and explore this place the art team poured their blood, sweat and tears into.

NOPE!

Instead of this, there's a fucking 'GO TO [WHEREVER]' pop-up with a gigantic arrow pointing me in the 'right' direction every couple of minutes because, god forbid, I wanted to have a look around and not go from A-to-B like a circuit.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:21 am

ShenGCH wrote:
Zoltor wrote: To Shen GTH: Yea exactly, this handholding BS needs to be done away with these day, and people wonderwhy kids are utterly braindead nowadays. It's because everything is done for them.

Seriously, I'll be extremely pissed off, if there a pointer in Shenmue 3 telling you what to do next, icons on top of NPCs pointing out they're important, ect.

Seriously It's so bad these days, games feel the need to tell you, you need to hit ______, button, to talk to a NPC or whatever, It's retarded. It's so bad, that there are games, that are pretty much nothing but tutorials sigh.

God forbid someone actually has to figure anything out them selves. Nintendo did a test, they had a ton of people play the 1st stage of SMB1, and their results state that 90% op gamers today, can't even finish the 1st stage of SMB1 http://www.p4rgaming.com/majority-of-ga ... ario-bros/

BioShock Infinite was the last game I played that hand-held so heavily it almost made me rage quit the game from that alone. I mean, the developers (the artists especially) created such a lush, gorgeous world full to the brim with all sorts of eye candy and NPCs doing things off the beaten path, you'd think they'd want players to take in the atmosphere and explore this place the art team poured their blood, sweat and tears into.

NOPE!

Instead of this, there's a fucking 'GO TO [WHEREVER]' pop-up with a gigantic arrow pointing me in the 'right' direction every couple of minutes because, god forbid, I wanted to have a look around and not go from A-to-B like a circuit.


Yea It's really bad sigh, and that's a pretty common thing. Developers: we want people to eplore, and there's all kinds of cool extra side things we put in the game.....but we're gonna funnel the player along the story as fast as possible.

I mean what the hell is the point of side quests or whatnot, when you're trying to shove the player to the end, as fast as possible.

I feel the need to point out, that the overuse of waypoints, and direction pushing the player, is super counter productive. Developers, and yes even publishers, should want people to spend a bunch of time playing the game, so forcing the player into a speedrun kind of setup.

This kind of BS doesn't benefit anyone but the whiners, who would use a gamefaqs walkthough on their first time playing the game anyway, so what's the damn point.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Shibiryo » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:52 am

LOL I got something funny for all you fans.

I'm sure if you have played Shenmue II, you can gamble in many of the parlors throughout Hong Kong. I work at a college and we have foriegn exchange student aide program which I oversee. The one student aide Wun Ha was from Hong Kong and he works under me. I invited them over to my party and what's funny is that Wun knew of the game "Roll it on Top" After consuming mass quantities of booze, my friend MG, and I can officially say we played "Roll it on Top" with a guy from Hong Kong. It was a surreal moment.

http://www.psykomantis.com/img/party040706/DSCF0934.JPG http://www.psykomantis.com/img/party040706/DSCF0933.JPG

More pics from our party for those who are curious. http://www.psykomantis.com/img/party040706/

Thought I'd share an LOL moment.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Yokosuka » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:31 pm

Your links don't work !

About the lack of minimap debate, I wonder if it was a real purpose from the developers and what YSnet and Neilo think now. Because since we've seen the full making of video, we know that the beta used a Crazy Taxi indicator arrow. :rotflmao:

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:17 pm

Xuiying, Xuiying, Xuiying, what are we going to do with you.

I really hope she plays a pretty big role in Shenmue 3(Infact I would love for her to be like a secret character we can find, then she'll be usable for the Character perspective system).

This really Isn't about Shenmue 3 specifically though, the only reason I said that, is the point that we really don't know her real reason for helping Ryo out so much.

Sure "initially" she wanted just to make sure he doesn't go down the wrong path like her brother, but that's obviously not the main reason.

She's rather overbearing for the typical Shifu, pupil relationship, but with Xuiying being Xuiying, who knows, she doesn't really show any emotion(unless It's about her brother).

I narrowed it down to the two most likely things, either she really likes Ryo in a romantic way or she more or less is using Ryo, so she can find her brother/info about him atleast(subconsciously ofcourse, she's way too kind hearted to be purposely doing such, without telling Ryo upfront first), combined with the typical Shifu-pupil relationship.

I would really love to find out what her deal really is, in a lot of ways, she's as mysterios as Shenhua for crying out loud.

Furthermore, I don't buy the fact her brother went off on some revenge trip, being the cause for her being so emotionless/scared to show emotion I should say. Sure martial arts training will help you control your emotions more, but that's certainly not the cause in Xuiying's case. Therefor I would like to find out how all this came about(was she bullied in the orphanage, did something else happen between the time she was at the orphanage, and the time she started helping at Man Mo Temple or what.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Ziming » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:09 pm

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