Shenmue 1.. a mostly optional affair?

[Himuro]

Because Charlie will appear randomly out of nowhere with no context, as with the sailors who call Ryo "schoolboy". The kitten would be reduced to some strange thing for players to stumble across. Introducing minor characters will no longer be in it so they'll essentially be faceless randoms, and the idea of living every day as opposed to the typical fast-track route will be gone. Character development goes out the window too.

As I say, you miss the point entirely.

It can be OPTIONAL though.

When you start the game you would be prompted with 2 options:

1.) Play Shenmue as originally conceived and intended

2.) Cut the crap and get to the good stuff!

The good stuff only works on any level due to the build up to it. If you cut the other stuff out the 70 man battle loses all context, build up, or intrigue. Build up is a part of Shenmue's appeal and is very much its main storytelling technique.

[south carmain]

I think a wait option like in shenmue 2 would be enough. Anything beyond that would just fuck up the game and I doubt anyone who can't appreciate shenmue for it's core concept is going to appreciate the game with large chunks taken out since the main appeal is it's unique gameplay concept in the first place.

Just let the game find it's audience, with all the successful indy games that are almost entirely based on walking around to a narrative I'm sure there is a large enough audience out there to appreciate the game.

[Perfect_Chaos]

I think a wait option like in shenmue 2 would be enough. Anything beyond that would just fuck up the game and I doubt anyone who can't appreciate shenmue for it's core concept is going to appreciate the game with large chunks taken out since the main appeal is it's unique gameplay concept in the first place.

Just let the game find it's audience, with all the successful indy games that are almost entirely based on walking around to a narrative I'm sure there is a large enough audience out there to appreciate the game.

In my (unpopular) opinion the "wait" option ruined S2 for me. In the first I was forced to take in the scenery, talk to people, buy sodas, and molest a cat etc. In S2 i can skip all that. now you might think why wouldnt i just choose to not skip? because if the option is there god dammit I'm gonna take it lol. I don't want to wait around. However being forced to wait is what caused me to be immersed with the first game.
S2 just feels like im running from point A to point B to progress the story from start to finish.

[south carmain]

I think a wait option like in shenmue 2 would be enough. Anything beyond that would just fuck up the game and I doubt anyone who can't appreciate shenmue for it's core concept is going to appreciate the game with large chunks taken out since the main appeal is it's unique gameplay concept in the first place.

Just let the game find it's audience, with all the successful indy games that are almost entirely based on walking around to a narrative I'm sure there is a large enough audience out there to appreciate the game.

In my (unpopular) opinion the "wait" option ruined S2 for me. In the first I was forced to take in the scenery, talk to people, buy sodas, and molest a cat etc. In S2 i can skip all that. now you might think why wouldnt i just choose to not skip? because if the option is there god dammit I'm gonna take it lol. I don't want to wait around. However being forced to wait is what caused me to be immersed with the first game.
S2 just feels like im running from point A to point B to progress the story from start to finish.

I get your point and it makes sense but unfortunately a lot of people simply don't have that patience and it can make the game too slow paced for their taste. Either way in my personal opinion I have a problem with neither.

[Himuro]

I think a wait option like in shenmue 2 would be enough. Anything beyond that would just fuck up the game and I doubt anyone who can't appreciate shenmue for it's core concept is going to appreciate the game with large chunks taken out since the main appeal is it's unique gameplay concept in the first place.

Just let the game find it's audience, with all the successful indy games that are almost entirely based on walking around to a narrative I'm sure there is a large enough audience out there to appreciate the game.

In my (unpopular) opinion the "wait" option ruined S2 for me. In the first I was forced to take in the scenery, talk to people, buy sodas, and molest a cat etc. In S2 i can skip all that. now you might think why wouldnt i just choose to not skip? because if the option is there god dammit I'm gonna take it lol. I don't want to wait around. However being forced to wait is what caused me to be immersed with the first game.
S2 just feels like im running from point A to point B to progress the story from start to finish.

Don't use it. The only time it's required is when you need the Wulinshu and you're locked in Wise Man qtr.

[Perfect_Chaos]

Don't use it. The only time it's required is when you need the Wulinshu and you're locked in Wise Man qtr.

now you might think why wouldnt i just choose to not skip? because if the option is there god dammit I'm gonna take it lol. I don't want to wait around.

[ShenGCH]

Don't use it. The only time it's required is when you need the Wulinshu and you're locked in Wise Man qtr.

now you might think why wouldnt i just choose to not skip? because if the option is there god dammit I'm gonna take it lol. I don't want to wait around.

This doesn't justify your point, unfortunately. You say the Wait option "ruined" Shenmue II for you, despite it being a completely optional mechanic, and then you go on to say if the option is there, you're going to take it for that very reason despite taking no issue with being "forced" to take in the surroundings in the first game. If you were forced to use the Wait option, thereby disturbing the flow, cohesion, and freedom of the game, then yeah, I would understand, but when something is optional, it's optional; you're not required to do it under any circumstances. You're contradicting yourself.

[sand4fish]

Don't use it. The only time it's required is when you need the Wulinshu and you're locked in Wise Man qtr.

now you might think why wouldnt i just choose to not skip? because if the option is there god dammit I'm gonna take it lol. I don't want to wait around.

This doesn't justify your point, unfortunately. You say the Wait option "ruined" Shenmue II for you, despite it being a completely optional mechanic, and then you go on to say if the option is there, you're going to take it for that very reason despite taking no issue with being "forced" to take in the surroundings in the first game. If you were forced to use the Wait option, thereby disturbing the flow, cohesion, and freedom of the game, then yeah, I would understand, but when something is optional, it's optional; you're not required to do it under any circumstances. You're contradicting yourself.

That's actually easy to explain. Here's a simple example. A lot of games nowadays allow you to change difficulty midway the game. So whenever you find yourself dying repeatedly at a boss battle, you just go and lower the difficulty and then if the game allows it, put the difficulty back up later again. It's optional, but most people would do it simply because there's no penalty for doing so, and most are not disciplined enough to just keep trying and trying it again just for the sake of challenge. It's a shortcut and everyone does it, so why wouldn't you? It's the same problem with grinding in videogames too, a flawed design choice.

[ShenGCH]

Don't use it. The only time it's required is when you need the Wulinshu and you're locked in Wise Man qtr.

now you might think why wouldnt i just choose to not skip? because if the option is there god dammit I'm gonna take it lol. I don't want to wait around.

This doesn't justify your point, unfortunately. You say the Wait option "ruined" Shenmue II for you, despite it being a completely optional mechanic, and then you go on to say if the option is there, you're going to take it for that very reason despite taking no issue with being "forced" to take in the surroundings in the first game. If you were forced to use the Wait option, thereby disturbing the flow, cohesion, and freedom of the game, then yeah, I would understand, but when something is optional, it's optional; you're not required to do it under any circumstances. You're contradicting yourself.

That's actually easy to explain. Here's a simple example. A lot of games nowadays allow you to change difficulty midway the game. So whenever you find yourself dying repeatedly at a boss battle, you just go and lower the difficulty and then if the game allows it, put the difficulty back up later again. It's optional, but most people would do it simply because there's no penalty for doing so, and most are not disciplined enough to just keep trying and trying it again just for the sake of challenge. It's a shortcut and everyone does it, so why wouldn't you? It's the same problem with grinding in videogames too, a flawed design choice.

The issue with what Perfect_Chaos is saying, however - unless I'm misunderstanding what he's getting at - is he claims the Wait option "ruined" the game for him despite taking issue with the reason for which the option the was introduced in the first place: the lack of the option in the first game. The example of changing the game's difficulty mid-game doesn't really work as, outside of being optional, using the Wait option in Shenmue II doesn't change the experience at a fundamental level or work as a way of making progression that much easier; it's simply a mechanic used to advance time in order to not have to wait around, providing a solution for one of the first game's biggest complaints. The Fallout and The Elder Scrolls games feature the same thing in the same context for the same purpose. The Wait option is optional, and that should be the be-all-and-end-all.

[south carmain]

He's just saying that in the first game the lack of being able to wait forced him to discover what the game had to offer while in the second one he would give in to his impatience due to being given the choice. I don't think he is saying it has to be that way or that you can't just ignore the wait option given the choice just that it's difficult for him to do so changing the experiemce for him.

[Himuro]

Maybe it'd be instead of having wait or cancel pop up when it's time that decision, there's an option in the menu to turn wait on or off? That way he could turn wait off in the menu and just experience the game like Shenmue 1?

I think that'd be a great medium and should be in III. Maybe it's possible to mod into Shenmue II?

[sand4fish]

The issue with what Perfect_Chaos is saying, however - unless I'm misunderstanding what he's getting at - is he claims the Wait option "ruined" the game for him despite taking issue with the reason for which the option the was introduced in the first place: the lack of the option in the first game. The example of changing the game's difficulty mid-game doesn't really work as, outside of being optional, using the Wait option in Shenmue II doesn't change the experience at a fundamental level or work as a way of making progression that much easier; it's simply a mechanic used to advance time in order to not have to wait around, providing a solution for one of the first game's biggest complaints. The Fallout and The Elder Scrolls games feature the same thing in the same context for the same purpose. The Wait option is optional, and that should be the be-all-and-end-all.

Okay, I'll try to tell you exactly how the Wait feature can "ruin" or change the experience at a fundamental level for those who enjoyed the first game better. The fact you can't skip time in Shenmue 1 makes you constantly mindful of open/closing hours of places and being in time to "appointments" with npcs because if you miss that time window, you pay the price of having to wait until the following day in order to progress. As for day and night, each presents distinct npcs and places to move the game forward. So time matters here, reinforced by the fact that there is a clock in your UI screen 100% of the time and your avatar looking at his watch from time to time.
Now, Shenmue 2 presents basically the same features of the first game but because of the Wait function, day/night cycles and npcs schedules are simply relegated to an aesthetics function. After all the in-game progress related npcs can be found at any time of your choosing and you don't need to be mindful of their schedules anymore. The little sense of urgency present from the first game is now gone. Of course you have the option of simply ignoring the function, but doing so gain you nothing and at most you are just artificially making the game "harder" for yourself when you could just choose to skip time with no consequences to it (a shortcut just like the lowering difficulty analogy).

[Kodama667]

I think a wait function in Shen1 is a good idea to cater to the casuals. They just wanna watch an interactive movie and do some action every now and then, especially modern playstation fans. I personally would never use it, but it would be a good idea to put in there.

Now shenmue 2, I always use the wait feature. Unlike shenmue 1, the world is alot less intimate. You don't miss anything by not walking around aimlessly. And you can't really use your free time wisely to train moves in a parking lot either...

[ShenGCH]

The issue with what Perfect_Chaos is saying, however - unless I'm misunderstanding what he's getting at - is he claims the Wait option "ruined" the game for him despite taking issue with the reason for which the option the was introduced in the first place: the lack of the option in the first game. The example of changing the game's difficulty mid-game doesn't really work as, outside of being optional, using the Wait option in Shenmue II doesn't change the experience at a fundamental level or work as a way of making progression that much easier; it's simply a mechanic used to advance time in order to not have to wait around, providing a solution for one of the first game's biggest complaints. The Fallout and The Elder Scrolls games feature the same thing in the same context for the same purpose. The Wait option is optional, and that should be the be-all-and-end-all.

Okay, I'll try to tell you exactly how the Wait feature can "ruin" or change the experience at a fundamental level for those who enjoyed the first game better. The fact you can't skip time in Shenmue 1 makes you constantly mindful of open/closing hours of places and being in time to "appointments" with npcs because if you miss that time window, you pay the price of having to wait until the following day in order to progress. As for day and night, each presents distinct npcs and places to move the game forward. So time matters here, reinforced by the fact that there is a clock in your UI screen 100% of the time and your avatar looking at his watch from time to time.
Now, Shenmue 2 presents basically the same features of the first game but because of the Wait function, day/night cycles and npcs schedules are simply relegated to an aesthetics function. After all the in-game progress related npcs can be found at any time of your choosing and you don't need to be mindful of their schedules anymore. The little sense of urgency present from the first game is now gone. Of course you have the option of simply ignoring the function, but doing so gain you nothing and at most you are just artificially making the game "harder" for yourself when you could just choose to skip time with no consequences to it (a shortcut just like the lowering difficulty analogy).

I don't think the Wait option is the reason for the watered-down intimacy/importance of NPCs and rigidity of schedules present in the first game. Shenmue II, whether by design or consequence, feels much less tighter and well-knitted than its predecessor, not least because of how much more open and 'free' the world is, as well as the options within, to the point where the vast majority of the schedules present are simply unnecessary because they make no difference to the player. Instead of being about 'Oh, I need to be there by 2:00pm', for example, it's a case of daytime/night time unless otherwise specified.

[Sonoshee]

I get your point and it makes sense but unfortunately a lot of people simply don't have that patience and it can make the game too slow paced for their taste. Either way in my personal opinion I have a problem with neither.

Shenmue pays off in droves for the patience you give it.

Honestly it's their loss if they can't give the game the time of day it truly deserves.