It is possible to mod Shenmue like GTA?

[R3N]

Is it possible that shenmue can be ported to pc by fans ?
If not how much would it cost to get outsource help?

Is it possible that shenmue can be modified the same way Grand Thief auto is modified ?
If not how much would it cost to get outsource help?

I know that there are some fan games in process but I think nothing can compare to a mod using the same engine that shenmue has the same way people made entire game mods for Grand thief auto.

If there would not be a shenmue 3 I would be even just as happy if players could mod the game. We could make unlimited shenmue adventures and make changes to the game for all our lives =) That would be even more amazing that a third game.

[ReRuss]

In my experience with GTA modding (StU .5.1 was my last release I think), GTA runs a big ass script that tells it what to do, and the reads from compressed files for models, textures, collision information, and was officially on PC/PS2/XBOX anyway... I'm pretty sure shenmue porting by fans would take a lot of work compared...

[Oppy]

Modding GTA3, vice city and san andreas isnt that hard. Not sure about gta4. I made a few mods back in the day for gta3, only little things tho. The thing is its extremly time consuming. Modding the cities in gta to look like hong kong, japan ect would take an extremly long time, and Textures would also have to be made which most of the time takes longer then modeling. I dont know how one would go about modding the game engine, as stealing cars, killing people with weapons and being arested isnt really something that would suit the shenmue story, I couldnt really imagine Ryo doing any of that. Voice overs and cutscenes would also be time consuming.. I really dont need to go any futher..
Is it possible?
Yes.
Is it worth doing?
No.

Something authentic looking would take monthes or even years of full time work for one person. Not really worth it...
If your a uni student that knows how to mod gta then give it a shot. But most shenmue fans are grown up now and work full time jobs. so its not worth it.

If you want i could try and make a Ryo skin for you though

[R3N]

Modding GTA3, vice city and san andreas isnt that hard. Not sure about gta4. I made a few mods back in the day for gta3, only little things tho. The thing is its extremly time consuming. Modding the cities in gta to look like hong kong, japan ect would take an extremly long time, and Textures would also have to be made which most of the time takes longer then modeling. I dont know how one would go about modding the game engine, as stealing cars, killing people with weapons and being arested isnt really something that would suit the shenmue story, I couldnt really imagine Ryo doing any of that. Voice overs and cutscenes would also be time consuming.. I really dont need to go any futher..
Is it possible?
Yes.
Is it worth doing?
No.

Something authentic looking would take monthes or even years of full time work for one person. Not really worth it...
If your a uni student that knows how to mod gta then give it a shot. But most shenmue fans are grown up now and work full time jobs. so its not worth it.

If you want i could try and make a Ryo skin for you though

I apologize I may have not explained well.
What I meant was mod shenmue and modified anyway we want to.
I didn't meant to say to make a shenmue mod using GTA engine.
I meant to say make a shenmue mod using shenmue engine.

I want to know because if is possible then I am willing to spend money to hire some freelancers professional gaming programmers to do it.
If in 10 years there is no shenmue 3 then shenmue is dead so if that is the case I am willing to spend money to create a professional fan made game.
But I want the game to have the same engine as shenmue... Because without it the game will not feel the same way..

[ReeceKun]

I meant to say make a shenmue mod using shenmue engine.

Anything is possible if someone has the interest and skills , the only way to unofficially mod any game is to start by reverse engineering it. To break it back down into its original PC components before it was compiled into a dreamcast image.

The shenmue engine is based on the dreamcast so it would mean modifing dreamcast ISOs and running the game on a dreamcast emulator, NullDC, which that in itself isnt yet 100%, I cant see that many people who have modified xbox's so forget that idea.

I think the best idea is for us to get all of the original 3D Models in 100% working order and then find a decent PC engine that will support the same features

[Master Kyodai]

The short answer is "no". The Game only exists as a Dreamcast executable. You can not just convert executables from another system to PC format. The problem is not just that we do not have the source code of the executables - even if we had it it would simply not "run" as the executables, Graphics and sound engines are written for Dreamcast hardware, not for PC.

If we had the sources and some godly programmers it would be possible to make a native PC game out of it, but from the current situation the answer must definitely be "no".

Modding Shenmue would be the smaller problem - if you read this forum you can see that we modded Shenmue a lot so far - not just after the modding forum was added.

The comparision with GTA 3 is not an easy one as it's a game with loads of mods, tools and people interested in it, compared to GTA the shenmue modding community is extremely tiny, i think there's like less than 20 people world wide who really do or did some modding stuff on Shenmue.

There is no tool to convert 3ds or similar formats to mt5 or mt7, so there's no custom models for Shenmue. I am also not sure if this was of any use as unlike in GTA you can't drive 20 different cars or stuff, besides the scenery and characters it would make limited sense in Shenmue to import 3d models. Also unlike in GTA most secrets are not yet revealed. We have a rough idea about how scene files work, how scene actions are triggered, but no real specification.

Emulation is a realistic way to enjoy shenmue and fumble with some smaller modifications.

As ReeceKun said - a PC based remake would also be a solution, but i can't realistically see that any time soon.


I am not sure what the fuss is with the engine, it's a very limited 3D engine, if you just understand the "user interface" as the engine, then let me assure you that adding the neat little compass and watch will be the smallest problem in the process. For PC there are dozens of good 3D engines, i could not imagine why anyone would want to port a slow engine that is heavily focused on Dreamcast hardware to the PC - there's really really much better engines on PC.

[dotsona]

^^ I completely agree, the Shenmue modding scene is tiny. Very tiny. That is probably the biggest hurdle for any modding progression. I think the only real thing we can do is get the models out of the game and either import the models into other game engines, or do some creative renders for a laugh.

The extractor is still pretty far off as well, maybe someday extracting models will become seamless. My ultimate dream would be to somehow extract rig data, but I am not sure if it is possible.

[ReeceKun]

.... to somehow extract rig data, but I am not sure if it is possible.

Like I say its possible if someone has the interest and skill. Kinda annoys me though when someone makes a program to extract Tomb Raider Models with textures & bones within a few months of the game being out and yet we wait 10+ years for this lol, Also annoys me that somewhere in japan there is a group of people who worked on the game and could whip a decompiler up in no time lol

Bones and animation would be awesome but I will settle for the textured models, I thank the people who spend time on making programs but I've seen alot of developers lose interest and give up so I think an 'incentive' is fair in this case

.... or the kitty gets it!

[dotsona]

We need to start posting on Moddb and look for developers who would be interested in this project. I created a moddb profile for Shenmue which can be found here.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/shenmue-gmod

We basically need to recruit some C++ developers who have a background in 3D. Maybe we need to post in the help section. Yazgoo said he would provide all the necessary assets to anyone interested.


Edit: I just posted a job post on moddb, hopefully someone responds, its really our only hope :(

[R3N]

The short answer is "no". The Game only exists as a Dreamcast executable. You can not just convert executables from another system to PC format. The problem is not just that we do not have the source code of the executables - even if we had it it would simply not "run" as the executables, Graphics and sound engines are written for Dreamcast hardware, not for PC.

If we had the sources and some godly programmers it would be possible to make a native PC game out of it, but from the current situation the answer must definitely be "no".

Modding Shenmue would be the smaller problem - if you read this forum you can see that we modded Shenmue a lot so far - not just after the modding forum was added.

The comparision with GTA 3 is not an easy one as it's a game with loads of mods, tools and people interested in it, compared to GTA the shenmue modding community is extremely tiny, i think there's like less than 20 people world wide who really do or did some modding stuff on Shenmue.

There is no tool to convert 3ds or similar formats to mt5 or mt7, so there's no custom models for Shenmue. I am also not sure if this was of any use as unlike in GTA you can't drive 20 different cars or stuff, besides the scenery and characters it would make limited sense in Shenmue to import 3d models. Also unlike in GTA most secrets are not yet revealed. We have a rough idea about how scene files work, how scene actions are triggered, but no real specification.

Emulation is a realistic way to enjoy shenmue and fumble with some smaller modifications.

As ReeceKun said - a PC based remake would also be a solution, but i can't realistically see that any time soon.


I am not sure what the fuss is with the engine, it's a very limited 3D engine, if you just understand the "user interface" as the engine, then let me assure you that adding the neat little compass and watch will be the smallest problem in the process. For PC there are dozens of good 3D engines, i could not imagine why anyone would want to port a slow engine that is heavily focused on Dreamcast hardware to the PC - there's really really much better engines on PC.

Like what engine?
I don't care for the neat little compass and watch.

I want an engine that can have the FREE effect that shenmue has.
I don't care for "pretty graphics"
In my opinion the shenmue graphics are beautiful because they have so much detail
What engine can offer the same kind of detail shenmue has?

.... to somehow extract rig data, but I am not sure if it is possible.

Like I say its possible if someone has the interest and skill. Kinda annoys me though when someone makes a program to extract Tomb Raider Models with textures & bones within a few months of the game being out and yet we wait 10+ years for this lol, Also annoys me that somewhere in japan there is a group of people who worked on the game and could whip a decompiler up in no time lol

We could hire freelancers but sadly there are not many serious fans...

If we had the sources and some godly programmers it would be possible to make a native PC game out of it, but from the current situation the answer must definitely be "no".

Here are the Godly programmers

April 1994 — March 2000 (6 years )
Shenmue (Lead Programmer), Shenmue II (System Design & Program Advisor)
http://jp.linkedin.com/pub/tak-hirai/5/17/81A

Artist / 3D Character
Sega
(Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; Computer Games industry)
December 1997 — February 2003 (5 years 3 months)
Worked on "Shenmue I (1999, DreamCast)" as a character modeler.
http://jp.linkedin.com/pub/nobuyuki-suzuki/8/A38/A1B


Game Director and Artist
SEGA
(Public Company; Computer Games industry)
February 1996 — May 1998 (2 years 4 months)
Shenmue
as a game designer (designed main game system)
and lead technical artist

This guy really went far..
Yoshifusa Hayama
Vice President at Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
http://jp.linkedin.com/pub/yoshifusa-hayama/3/233/308

Anyone here a eccentric millionaire? I think that we need a miracle ....
We need money. Money can buy dreams...

I know is it wishful thinking....
I know hiring those guys would take a lot of money that we don't have...

But we could hire in the future some Japanese amateur freelancers.
That would not cost so much. Example this guy

http://jp.linkedin.com/in/naojitaniguchi

We need to start posting on Moddb and look for developers who would be interested in this project. I created a moddb profile for Shenmue which can be found here.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/shenmue-gmod

We basically need to recruit some C++ developers who have a background in 3D. Maybe we need to post in the help section. Yazgoo said he would provide all the necessary assets to anyone interested.


Edit: I just posted a job post on moddb, hopefully someone responds, its really our only hope :(

I believe if we want something of quality we need to get people who do that for a living.
Sadly not all shenmue fans are willing to spend money for that but it is just an idea...

But you know technology is improving fast and in 10 to 15 years it would not cost as much sadly by that time most fans would have already deleted shenmue from their life...

As you know a game that took a whole team to make 20 years ago.But now only a single person can make a game like it and even better.

[dotsona]

^^ Those are some nice finds, it might be possible to get in contact with one of those people, but it might be difficult. I do however think Moddb is a good place to find programmers, many of the people on there work in the gaming industry and the ones that don't are aspiring to and have plenty of skills.

The work that needs to be done on the extractor isn't that bad, it just needs some modifications. The entire MT5 format has been reversed engineered which is one of the major milestones that Yazgoo has gotten through. Yazgoo might come back to the project, but for now only hope is to find a coder who has enough understanding of C++ and 3d to fix some of these errors. Hopefully though Yazgoo will get the motivation to re visit the project. It might be our only hope.

[Master Kyodai]

@R3n: Too many quotes to handle so i just reply with what i think .

ANY Engine from the last ten years would be sufficient. Source engine, Unreal 1,2,3 engine, Quake engine. Any one would be sufficient to make a 1:1 conversion or much better.

What is the "FREE Effect"? I think you mistake a concept for an engine.


Hate to say anything negative about Shenmue, but the detail is TERRIBLE. If you know a bit about 3D you might have noticed that 99% of all building are just a bunch of alpha planes and they are even low res. Yeah it is amzing what they did with tehse alpha planes, very very impressive how they made some really convincing buildings from just a handfull of alpha planes. The secret here is not that they have much detail, the secret is that they barely have any detail and STILL look damn good.


I don't see that we can hire freelancers. Who's gonna pay them? The few hundred bucks we could scrape together? Unless YOU are willing to spend a small fortune (I'd think of many thousand dollars at least if you wanna hire a halfway "professional") I think "we" can not afford anything realistic.

Tak Hirai might be one who could do the job - if he understands enough about 3D formats. We don't know if he made the engine or any 3D convresion, but if he did he would be a good pick.

Noboyuki is more of a 3D mdoeler i think, i don't really know much more than his name, but I'd estimate that he has a focus on 3D modelling. Not even sure if he's a good programmer or familiar with 3D format conversion.

Hayama is prolly just a joke to put here, right? He is more of a manager and supervisor, not a programmer. Even if he could do it (which i doubt) he would deny. That would be like asking the president of coca cola to work as a wood cutter.



While in our phantasy it would be cool to employ half of SEGA AM2 i have serious doubts we could do that. We can neither afford to hire them for more than an hour nor can we negotiate with them properly. Don't get me wrong, maybe you're a millionaire who can afford all this, but from my estimation rather not. Thinking about hiring the vice president of SOny for this is sooooooo far off. Thats a bit like 3 kids wanna make a crappy home movie and think about hiring Arnold Schwarzenegger, Silvester Stallone and Leonardo di Caprio to star in it while having 500 DOllars in a bucket.


Actually i think very very few shenmue fans would spend money for it, not even all that are doing 3D rendering. They wanna spend money on SHenmue 3, not on some conversion tool which 99% of all people here have absolutely no idea what it does. Not everyone is into 3D rendering.

Maybe in 2025 software development costs like nothing. Maybe not. My crystal ball is broken. I'd be 46 then if i still live then. But that the shenmue fans will have died out then is very probable, totally agreed.


and LOL @ your idea that 1 person can make a game like Shenmue. Seriously: ROFL. Just give me ONE example. Just one. PLEASE.


imho it is futile to think about hiring professionals unless you can afford it or really find some donators with much money that REALLY donate. I have doubts that enough money would arise from these forums. If 5 people donated 100 bucks I'd already be surprised.

If you know that wonder guy who can program better games than Shenmue on his own as a 1-person show, then get him here. Otherwise we'll keep talking about rainbow colored castles in the sky.

[R3N]

What I meant by the FREE effect is that. You can interact with almost anything in the game. What I meant by detail is that there models for almost anything. For example is shenmue was another game Ryo's room would only have a bed and maybe a drawer but nothing else.But is shenmue you can open the drawers and interact even with stuff inside the drawers that what I am refairing to detail and FREE effect I am not talking about "pretty Graphics"

Can any of those engines offer me that the ability to interact with almost anything?. A shenmue game without such much interaction in my opinion is not a shenmue game.

I say it myself in the post above I know is it almost impossible to hire those guys without spending at least more than $100,000+

But with freelancers it may cost us $10,000 but yes sadly not many fans would pay for that the most we could gather is 200$ is we lucky ^^

Anyway I just show you does professional to see what their expertise is. To us as reference, if we would hire freelancers.To know what expertise we would need.

and LOL @ your idea that 1 person can make a game like Shenmue. Seriously: ROFL. Just give me ONE example. Just one. PLEASE.

Well that can become a reality by the year 2025 or year 2035

In this time a single person can make a SNES game that 20 years ago required a whole team to create it.

Also I have seen a single person create a game himself a Playstation 1 type of game.

I will tell you this even if it is the year 2025 and there is not a shenmue 3 game I will still not give up on it. This is just a backup plan if we don't see anything by that time. But to tell you the thuth I still believe and have hope that SEGA may still make shenmue 3 but it will take some years..

By that year I am willing to spend $10,000 or more.
But right now with the current technology is it not worth it.

[ReeceKun]

Please stop being a tit, your just asking pointless questions and talking crap.

The shenmue engine isnt some magical engine that was the only one ever designed to create a free world with interactive objects, An 'Engine' is about programming functions and even basic OpenGL engines can create a free world.

As Ive said when we are able to get the 3D Models then Fans will be able to recreate Shenmue however they see fit, as for 'How Long' It would take is a matter of interest and skill.

NO-ONE is going to hire 'Professionals' to make a Shenmue game, because SEGA Owns Shenmue, sega is unlikely to care about a 'low level' fan based games.

Its my hope that through getting the models and making shenmue movies/animations/comics that the shenmue fan base will wake-up and Sega could take notice, theve clearly awknowleged shenmue in sega all stars racing so its not like their trying to bury it, so who knows about the future, so for now shut yer fan boy pie hole

[Master Kyodai]

Interaction has nothing to do with the graphics engine, this is individual scripting/action defining for every individual scene. The love for detail in SHenmue is legendary, but the scenes are really low poly, so that would not be a problem for any engine.

If you are really serious with hiring freelancers, I would suggest a realistic approach. You can most probably not afford hiring the programmer of your choice for a project. But maybe if you or someone else is willing to collect funds you could hire someone from a site like rentacoder or so. I think if you have 500-1000 DOllars you might already have a chance to at least have someone finish the mt5 extractor, I think if you announce it like "searching someone to finish 90% completed 3d model converter" and are like ""Blah c++ sources are like 90% finished, already converts half of all models, only scenes and characters are still having distorted geometry".

I think thats a quite realistic train some programmer might hop on. For 1000 bucks im sure some indian guy's gonna grab it, for 500... Maybe...

If you have the mt5 extractor complete you'd already have best starting point for your own PC version, because you'd have all scenes, all models, all music and all sound. Even though we wouldn't be able to just make something usefull out of it with just asking for it this is the base that would be required for any serious attempt and probably attract further modders. There were already quite promising looking approaches with the source engine - if they had the scene models that would for sure be something to work with.


I think with most other approaches you'd fail.


And with the game creating thing it's rather vice versa. In the 80s a single developer made Donkey Kong and Super Mario Brothers. A single guy made Pong, a single guy made Pacman and so on. It's rather that with the uprise of vast 3D worlds this stuff became so detailed and complicated that you need a whole team. I'd rather think in 2035 you'd need like 500 people to make a game (GTA 12?), as people won't just accept the pacman you made in your coffee break any more, they want more more more.

Of course you can still make a game yourself, if you release your pacman on Playstation, PC or C-64 doesn't matter that much, but a game as complex as SHenmue was never made by a one man army and probably never will be. Even if you have a program that is automatically shitting out complete characters complete with synthetic voices you'd still take ages on level design, story and quest building, object placement, developing random events, choosing music, writing scripts and so on. There is much work in SHenmue that a computer will simply never be able to do.

I think "waiting untill 2025 and then making my own game" is a good second plan, so you at least dont need to worry for the next 15 years. Just don't expect that in 2025 you can mail-order the mysterious game development PC where you speak like "Computer, make Shenmue 3" in a microphone and BANG it's there.