Shenmue II too big ?

(Chapters 3-6)

Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby Martin » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:50 am

Interesting opinions.

Mine is that I loved the massive increase in size of SII. I remember thinking the original would be massive, and I finished it in two days. That was my only complaint with the original - it's length. Then SII came out, I played it just as much as the original, and it took me more than a week to finish. Not only was it larger, but it was more challenging.

You did feel like a stranger in a foreign land. Not everyone was friendly or had read about your father's death in the paper, etc. Nobody knew you. There were some friendly faces, some nasty ones, and some that were apathetic strangers. I also love that Shenmue II is so big that seeing every nook and cranny in a single play through is unlikely, and the game promoted exploration more than the original. Every time I played it, I found something I hadn't seen before, met someone I'd never met or opened the way to some side-plot I'd never experienced before. Then the epilogue..

SII really blew me away as a masterpiece. So did the original, but the sequel more so. If I had to disappear into a cave with only one of them to keep me company - it'd be SII for me, and most of that is down to it's size.

Size matters.

:rotflmao:
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Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby drunkensailor » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:57 am

SMDzero wrote: Shenmue 3 will prove that size doesn't matter.

I'm sure shenmue 3 will be bigger than shenmue 2
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Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby drunkensailor » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:58 am

Martin wrote: Interesting opinions.

Mine is that I loved the massive increase in size of SII. I remember thinking the original would be massive, and I finished it in two days. That was my only complaint with the original - it's length. Then SII came out, I played it just as much as the original, and it took me more than a week to finish. Not only was it larger, but it was more challenging.

You did feel like a stranger in a foreign land. Not everyone was friendly or had read about your father's death in the paper, etc. Nobody knew you. There were some friendly faces, some nasty ones, and some that were apathetic strangers. I also love that Shenmue II is so big that seeing every nook and cranny in a single play through is unlikely, and the game promoted exploration more than the original. Every time I played it, I found something I hadn't seen before, met someone I'd never met or opened the way to some side-plot I'd never experienced before. Then the epilogue..

SII really blew me away as a masterpiece. So did the original, but the sequel more so. If I had to disappear into a cave with only one of them to keep me company - it'd be SII for me, and most of that is down to it's size.

Size matters.

:rotflmao:

couldn't agree more
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Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby Ad.earns » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:52 am

I personally preferred the more gritty small town feel of SI but I obviously loved SII just as much just for different reasons
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Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby shredingskin » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:07 pm

What I was pointing out is how to "maximize resources" it's always better if you can have the choice to explore however you want, but in SII there are LOTS of places that the player (outside this forurm lol) will never investigate, and feel like wasted resources (while they do create that sense of realistic world).

In most open world games you always have some sort of sidequest or some fetchquest to go somewhere, in SII there are lots of places that you never feel the need to go (unless you just want to enter random places).

For example the first Shenmue gives you moments of gameplay to try to go everywhere (the bars looking for sailors, the barbershops for liu-san, the food places/travel agencies looking for chinese / trip, nagai looking for charlie, bike shop looking for a bike, warehouses looking for mad angels/asking for a job), in that sense SII tried to do a little of that with "man-mo something" and the chawan signs, it was quite cool, but there are a lot of places that you don't have incentive to go, and most people just don't find (and by the size of SII there's not much unique in them).

Even by being almost tiny by today standards SI feels big, because almost every place has a reason to exist, in SII it's almost background enviroment (same with NPCs IMO).
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Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby Martin » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:26 pm

I do see what you're saying, I suppose for me I didn't need a reason to explore everything, I just wanted to. The awesome world of Shenmue II made me want to go in all the shops just to see what's up. To be honest I don't remember any being duplicates of each other or something? I guess you just mean that there's nothing to actually do in most of them.

This is correct, but I just wanted to see. Some bars had some vending machines, and you'd just find cool stuff. If exploring is your thing. But you don't have to. You can just play the objective. Same thing with most open world games these days, to be honest. 90% of the world map has no 'function' in terms of player interactivity or in relation to the story line.

SII was at the same time as GTA3, which had a larger and even less interactive world. That game was a smash hit and paved the way for the multiple sequels we haven't had to wait 14 years for. While I do see what you're saying, I don't think SII's size was really it's issue. The issue is that it's part of a series that really divides opinion, ultimately. Even though, as you say, SII essentially spreads it's interactivity thinner and over more ground, it was still just as 'detailed' as SI. Probably had more things to do, just seemed like less in the bigger world.

Every task was pretty much unique, except playing cards and stuff in different places. But even then, different buy-ins and potential winners at different tables. To be honest, except in the epilogue (where you're actively heading somewhere) you are never far from an activity. The whole tempo in SII is quicker. I even like how the games contrast. SI is a very quaint game, whereas SII was epic.

I was blown away by the scope of the game when I first played it, it just kept giving and giving. Every time I thought it had finished, I had merely reached a new part of the game, and the world was massive. I think it helped that SII contained the majority of the promotional content and magazine-coverage found in the year or so on the run up to SI. Much of the imagery and locales, and even action that got me interested in Shenmue in the first place is found in SII.

Ultimately it felt less linear than the first game. Its problem wasn't its size, but that everyone had already made their mind up about Shenmue by the time it came out. The few of us who loved SI were pretty much the only ones who bought SII. Which is a shame. If they'd have gone in with SI and SII just as a single game, I think Shenmue would have made a much greater impact. After all, SI is basically training you for the trials ahead in SII. They're one game that had to be split, and SII by far contains the lion's share.
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Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby drunkensailor » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:19 am

shredingskin wrote: What I was pointing out is how to "maximize resources" it's always better if you can have the choice to explore however you want, but in SII there are LOTS of places that the player (outside this forurm lol) will never investigate, and feel like wasted resources (while they do create that sense of realistic world).

In most open world games you always have some sort of sidequest or some fetchquest to go somewhere, in SII there are lots of places that you never feel the need to go (unless you just want to enter random places).

For example the first Shenmue gives you moments of gameplay to try to go everywhere (the bars looking for sailors, the barbershops for liu-san, the food places/travel agencies looking for chinese / trip, nagai looking for charlie, bike shop looking for a bike, warehouses looking for mad angels/asking for a job), in that sense SII tried to do a little of that with "man-mo something" and the chawan signs, it was quite cool, but there are a lot of places that you don't have incentive to go, and most people just don't find (and by the size of SII there's not much unique in them).

Even by being almost tiny by today standards SI feels big, because almost every place has a reason to exist, in SII it's almost background enviroment (same with NPCs IMO).

you could maybe make thet argument for kownloon, but definitely not for hongkong.

for instance only last year (I played shenmue 2 at least 8 times) did I find out I could get raffle tickets and win prices in a shop at queens street! I also remember visiting a fishing shop and trigger a cutscene with a photo of wong, who was hanging there. not to mention the amazing attention for detail. I want to enter every shop simply to listen at all the different songs and look at the shops interior.
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Re: Shenmue II too big ?

Postby ys » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:30 pm

7heavens wrote: Shenmue 2 made u feel like a foreigner lost in a big city so it fits well with ryos circumstance. And in shenmue 1 u knew everything and every1 again perfectly fits his circumstance as yukosuka is ryos home

Good point.
I did like the size of Shenmue II though. It's not as huge as certain open world games these days but it still felt more alive to me because of the interacting NPC's. Another advantage is that it makes it manageable to learn the different areas. With a few modern, larger games you need to use fast travel but that also takes you out of the world a little bit.
Yu Suzuki has been talking about optimal density when it comes to the relation between people and the world. Shenmue II was quite close to that for me.
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