Guilin is the best part of any game to me

(Chapters 3-6)

Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Himuro » Sun May 21, 2017 5:00 pm

south carmain wrote: Since it seems like Shenmue 3 will start at the beginning of the Guilin section of Shenmue 2, are you guys gonna rush through it to find out as quickly as possible what happens after the cave or will you take your time to take in all of the sights remade in modern graphics?


The second one EASILY. The Shenhua house video made me tear up because I was so happy. It was like seeing an old friend again, except this time they've grown up. I am going to fully explore Shenhua's house again, every nook and cranny!

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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby south carmain » Sun May 21, 2017 5:38 pm

I'm definitely in the same boat as you guys however I'm more torn on wherever I'll replay the guilin section before shenmue 3's release. On one hand it would be great to see the upgrade for what it is but on the other it's been so long that I haven't replayed the Guilin section that stopping on disc 3 then immediately getting the experience in HD with little memory of the original would be an experience in itself too.

I think I'll stop on disc 3 of shenmue 2, finish shenmue 3 then go back and replay both Guilins to compare them side by side. That way if they somehow had to downgrade some things in shenmue 3 due to budget constraints they won't be obvious until I replay it.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Himuro » Sun May 21, 2017 6:22 pm

There's no guarantee they're even remaking the sections from Shenmue II. Yu said they'll start the game sometime after the ending of II. I think you are doing yourself a disservice as disc 4 is an amazing preview for III, and there's no possible way or reason the team would remake the entire disc just for III. Where did you get that they're remaking the stuff from Shenmue II? From the rock jumping QTE and the fireflies cutscene? It seems to me those were made for conceptual basis rather being something that'll be in the final product. There's a high chance you will have skipped the best preview for Shenmue III, go into Shenmue III and not have it. Then you'll be mad you didn't do it.

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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby south carmain » Sun May 21, 2017 6:35 pm

Ah I thought that was confirmed, I guess from the cinematics and the gameplay you could see being made I just assumed that's where it would start. Also since shenmue 3 will be greatly based on interactions between characters I guess it made sense to me that it would at least start when he meets shenhua.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Sappharad » Sun May 21, 2017 11:03 pm

Himuro wrote: There's no guarantee they're even remaking the sections from Shenmue II. Yu said they'll start the game sometime after the ending of II.

south carmain wrote: Ah I thought that was confirmed, I guess from the cinematics and the gameplay you could see being made I just assumed that's where it would start. Also since shenmue 3 will be greatly based on interactions between characters I guess it made sense to me that it would at least start when he meets shenhua.

The last kickstarter update video confirmed that Ryo will pull the sword again.

It doesn't confirm that they're re-creating all of Disc 4, they probably aren't. But we've seen the rock jumping cutscene both during the original kickstarter pitch and again during one of the backer updates, and someone has suggested that they'll probably have flashbacks.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Himuro » Sun May 21, 2017 11:37 pm

They'll probably have flashbacks. But there's no confirmation they'll actually use that QTE in the final game. It could very well be conceptual. In any case, III won't have the full disc 4 experience so Carmain holding off for III won't exactly work.

I found the source of him saying where III would start.

https://twitter.com/yu_suzuki_jp/status ... 0230158336
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Yokosuka » Mon May 22, 2017 2:24 am

The probability of replaying the slightest Shenmue II moment in Shenmue III is close to zero. That would make absolutely no sense and discard Shenmue as an original saga, whatever the time gap between the episode releases. I'm not even sure that a chapter reboot would legally be correct as Sega still owns the copyrights of the first two episodes.

Himuro wrote:Wasn't it intentional though?


I cannot remember the source but Shenmue 2 was not supposed to unfold that far. AM2 likely knew that Shenmue 3 would never come out so Suzuki wanted a strong narrative element able to satisfy the fans and, this is my theory, to keep them desperately alive. Yes, what I'm saying here is that we already played the first chapter of Shenmue III on Dreamcast & Xbox.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Himuro » Mon May 22, 2017 3:00 am

Confession, I've listened to Guilin soundtrack via Shenmue Dojo through either the mp3 rips from ten years ago or the youtube channel every few months since beating II. The music is probably the most staying part for me. Such majesty. The hawk scene still gives me chills when I see it.

Yokosuka wrote: The probability of replaying the slightest Shenmue II moment in Shenmue III is close to zero. That would make absolutely no sense and discard Shenmue as an original saga, whatever the time gap between the episode releases. I'm not even sure that a chapter reboot would legally be correct as Sega still owns the copyrights of the first two episodes.

Himuro wrote:Wasn't it intentional though?


I cannot remember the source but Shenmue 2 was not supposed to unfold that far. AM2 likely knew that Shenmue 3 would never come out so Suzuki wanted a strong narrative element able to satisfy the fans and, this is my theory, to keep them desperately alive. Yes, what I'm saying here is that we already played the first chapter of Shenmue III on Dreamcast & Xbox.


I dunno. They were working on the Guilin section as far back as the Saturn version. It was always supposed to be in it. Apparently, it was the mysticism they went all out on because they weren't sure if there was going to be a Shenmue III and wanted to go out with a bang.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Yokosuka » Mon May 22, 2017 3:15 am

It's a fact that the Saturn trailer showed Shenmue 3 samples. Some exclusive places were visible: the house interior from a Shenmue 3 artwork, the underground harbor.

We know that AM2 were already working on Shenmue 3 Dreamcast. According ShenmueMaster, Shenmue 3 was even ready enough to be announced at E3 2004 on Xbox stage before being cancelled at the last minute but that's another story.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Himuro » Mon May 22, 2017 3:21 am

Well either way, they worked on the Guilin sections during I+II development anyways as seen in the making of.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Hazuki00 » Tue May 23, 2017 5:56 am

No way we replay again 4º disc of Shenmue 2, Himuro already put the link to twitter where Suzuki confirms it. Besides, every shenmue has had an amazing introduction so I can't imagine starting Shenmue 3 jumping rocks across the river.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Hazuki00 » Tue May 23, 2017 6:00 am

Hyo Razuki wrote:
In fact, S2 made the rest of gaming kind of "sour" to me for many years, which is part of why I had also quit gaming for like 10 years. S3's announcement brought me back to gaming again. But for many years, I just didn't find any game even remotely as captivating, beautiful and entertaining as S2, except for S1. So I didn't like gaming very much anymore.

I guess the announcement of S3 gave me new "hope" for gaming and as I have grown older I have kind of grown to accept that no game will probably be as good (to me personally) as S1 and S2 but I figured I could still have fun with other games. Still, nothing can touch S2. In fact, nothing can touch S1 , except for S2 which surpassed it. :)

Will S3 surpass S2? I don't expect it to and I don't need it to. I hope it'll be a great game in its own right, but frankly I don't think it will be as great as S2.

I felt the same way when I learnt we wouldn't have any more shenmue games, I quit playing games for many years and lost all the joy to play any game.
Now that Shenmue is alive again I feel like when I was a Kid, eagerly waiting for my favourite game!
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby BlueMue » Tue May 23, 2017 8:17 am

I have somewhat mixed feelings about Guilin. I love the place for everything it offers but it's such a huge contrast in gameplay to the rest of the game(s). It can't always be about fighting, full on action and exploring large areas but it feels a bit too linear. But I think they tried their best to give as much interaction as possible on these narrow paths to the finish line.

It is of course amazing how much work, love and detail they crammed into this small area. The visuals are just too beatiful and the music is outstanding, even for Shenmue. Some big games can't even reach this quality of music during their most important or emotional parts and here it's playing one amazing piece after the other while you're just walking through the forest. And the music that plays during the river scene and when Shenhua reads the letter is just goosebumps on goosebumps epic!

I still have mixed feelings if they should've included this part in Shenmue II or not. It's a discussion as old as the game itself but since Shenmue III it's hot again. Was it smart to include it so that III doesn't feel so drastically different from the first two game? Or would it have felt more natural to have such a change in pace between games instead of between chapters. I think it was their intention to end II after Kowloon and we can all agree that it would've been a perfect ending right there, very much in tone with I. They could've used Disc 4 to make Kowloon larger. Might've made the overall package better? In any case we still wouldn't know about Shenhua so it makes the whole thing invalid.
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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby Himuro » Tue May 23, 2017 9:21 am

I don't think it's a contest. Without Guilin Shenmue would be dead. If the game ended at Kowloon, who literally gives a shit what happens next. It's just a game where dude conquered and doesn't look inside himself, at all, and then rides into the sunset in the search for treasure. Pretty much every mystery in the series is grounded in Guilin. Who is Shenhua? What are the big stone mirrors for? What about the sword? What's with the cave? What's with Shenhua's powers? Ryo doing tai chi? A hint of him looking inside of himself and reconsidering his revenge? Who made camp before them, Lan Di? What about the Shenmie tree? It must have a significant role. Why does Ryo feel like he knows it? Are they siblings? Are they lovers? Is Shenhua a mystical being that has been reincarnated? Or is she hundreds of years old?

These mysteries and more, from three to four hours of one gameplay section.

No Guilin, no Shenmue III. Without Guilin who gives a fuck. It's just a generic - although fantastic - game where the hero wins at the end. Yawn.

Shenmue Dojo would have been dead by at least 2010 if Guilin weren't in II. What's there to talk about? Ryo beating Dou Niu? Without Guilin, if you beat disc 3 and it was the end of the game you'd probably think,"ah, I know how it ends. Ryo will beat Lan Di in the end, who cares." But Guilin changes the map, the stakes, and resets the board.

Without Guilin I don't see the fanbase give nearly as much of a shit about Shenmue. It'd have its fans and everything but it wouldn't have a fanbase grasping for something new as much as does now. It would have been a dead series like Suikoden or something.

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Re: Guilin is the best part of any game to me

Postby DAP » Thu May 25, 2017 1:03 am

Himuro,
it's surprising, yet inspiring, to see your love for Guilin. Here are the main reasons you said you love it:

It's so beautiful in its contrast to the rest of the series with its sights AND sounds. The fateful meeting, the ambient music, the conversations, the easy-going tone of it, the mystery of the stone cave.

Urban vs rural; the physical vs mystical; patience vs impatience.

The music is probably the most staying part for me.
The hawk scene still gives me chills when I see it.

Pretty much every mystery in the series is grounded in Guilin.


Which of those reasons (or another) is the cherry-on-top of your love of Guilin?
Did you love Guilin that much 10 years ago?
Have you visited Guilin IRL?
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