Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby elfshadowreaper » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:04 pm

So much hinges on HD remakes/straight rereleases. So many gamers aren't going to want to dive in mid story but if given easy access to the originals would jump at the chance to play then. I really hope Sega decides to fund remakes, watch the (hopefull) success of Shenmue 3, and then decide to fund Shenmue 4 and get their piece of the pie. We'll probably have the series with the biggest production value swings but whatever.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Hyo Razuki » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:04 pm

I hope for S 1 & 2 Remasters as well, but I think even without that we can still get our sales numbers. Since E3 of 2015, Shenmue has been getting massive exposure in all major gaming media, worldwide. Now be that positive or negative coverage, the name is still getting out there and a lot of people are gonna want to try S3 out.

With Yakuza for instance, number 3 has been the most successful entry so far. And that was a PS3 game, which had a much smaller user base at the time of Yakuza 3's release than the PS2 had at Yakuza 1 and 2's release. That's also kind of mid-story. If you haven't played 1 and 2, you won't be able to understand Yakuza 3's story to the fullest but you can still follow it and have fun with the game.

It's basically the same with S3. You'll never understand the full depth of the story and all its characters but you'll still be perfectly able to follow the main story line. You can easily sum up S1 and S2's story to make it accessible to newcomers with the cinema shorts YS Net have planned.

You play as the young Japanese martial artist Ryo who grew up in the suburbs with his father, a martial arts master who runs his own Dojo. In November of 1986, a Chinese triad boss named Lan Di breaks into the dojo and murders your father over the Dragon Mirror while accusing your father of having murdered a man in China in the past. You then start to pursue your fathers killer and find another mirror hidden at your house which the triad is also after. At the same time, Ryo starts dreaming about a country girl from China who also seems to be connected to the two mirrors. A Chinese martial arts master named Chen tells Ryo that the mirrors will resurrect an ancient Chinese monster called Chi You. Ryo fights a local Hell's Angels ripoff gang which is working for Lan Di and learns that Lan Di went to Hong Kong. Ryo follows him to Hong Kong and learns that a Chinese martial artist named Zhu, who used to be friends with Ryo's father is being held captive by a local gang which is also working for Lan Di. He teams up with a rival gang leader, Ren, to rescue Zhu. All the while making friends with loads of other martial artists in Yokosuka and Hong Kong and fighting lots of battles to become an ever stronger fighter. Zhu then tells Ryo and Ren the mirrors form a treasure map and says that Lan Di probably went off to mainland China, to the Guilin region, were the raw material of the mirrors can be found. Ryo gets on the next boat to the Guilin region where he runs into the girl he had seen in his dreams. And bang. There you are, in 1987's China and S3 starts at Shenhua's house.


You see, it took me like 15 lines to sum up the basic story of S1 and S2. Put that into a 5 to 10 minute video clip (nobody's gonna watch anything longer than 10 minutes) and it will be perfectly possible for anyone new to Shenmue to play S3.

Of course I'm still hoping for the Remasters but I think it is still feasible without.

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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Himuro » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:50 pm

elfshadowreaper wrote: So much hinges on HD remakes/straight rereleases.


Not true.

People bought Skyrim and Oblivion in droves despite not ever having played an Elder Scroll game. Don't modern Yakuza releases sell better than Yakuza 1 did? So I doubt most modern Yakuza fans have played both 1 and 2. Fallout 3 sold gangbusters despite: 1. being a pc only title previously and 2. having 3 in the title. Mass Effect 1 didn't come to Playstation 3 initally. They skipped right to 2 and it still sold well.

People who say this hinges on 1 and 2 being re-released are out of their minds. Historically, with story-based franchises, the point in the story doesn't matter. The number also doesn't matter. Final Fantasy VII sold 10 million worldwide. Europe bought it in droves despite 1. never having EVER had a Final Fantasy released in those parts and 2. BEING THE SEVENTH GAME. Sure, they're not connected story-wise, but it doesn't matter to most game players and most games of this type ease you into the story anyways.

The Witcher 3 came out JUST LAST YEAR on Playstation 4 and was a great seller for that system and guess what, Witcher 1 was on pc exclusively. Witcher 2 was on 360 and pc and didn't even sniff the ps3. Witcher 3 came out on Playstation 4 and sold really, really well.

There's far more cases of long running story-based franchises doing well mid-series to a general population when it previously never saw those numbers than the opposite.

Can we kill this "Shenmue 1 and 2 need to be re-released for this to be a success" thing? Because anyone who knows games even a tiny bit knows that's fucking bullshit. I remember plenty of people who bought Resident Evil 4 despite never ever having played a Resident Evil game before. I have a friend who played Suikoden III before I and 2. My cousin and plenty of other people bought Metal Gear Solid 4 based on the name alone and they had never played a single MGS. Plenty of people are going to buy Kingdom Hearts III and absolutely NONE of us understand the story going on there. Game players give less of a shit on being all caught up on the story than you think. All they have to do is make a movie summary like the digest in IIx. Now, does this mean that the game is guaranteed to do well? No. But its success certainly doesn't hinge on whether or not people have played the previous games.

The most central factors to this game doing well are 1. marketing and 2. it being a good game. Marketing is the real tough one but I have faith in Sony doing right by the game.

Spaghetti wrote:
Himuro wrote: Not all good games make money or are critically well received but Shenmue III is also a record breaking Kickstarter fundraiser and has over 15 years of hype.

I'm not so sure that'll work in its benefit, but then again; that length of hype is only really contained to fans and I'm almost completely certain at this point that the game will satisfy the majority of us.

The Kickstarter stuff is really only a stick to beat the game with if imperfections are picked upon. Look forward to position switching from a lot of people in the future when they change from "Is $6 million enough to make Shenmue III?" to "OMG SCAMMING YU SUZUKI DOES NOTHING WITH HUGE $6 MILLION FROM FANS".

I think it'll surprise a lot of people in terms of scope and depth for a KS game, though, but YSnet and Shibuya Productions probably won't get the appropriate credit for the hard work and some ignorant people will chalk it up to Sony.


That's fair. I'm just sick and tired of hearing about CORRUPT GAME JOURNALISM on this forum. It's boring and it's tired.

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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Monkei » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:24 am

Himuro wrote: Dark Souls, Life Is Strange, and more niche are as well. Still have their audiences.


Those games aren't really niche at all. True, Dark Souls relies on "hardcore" gamers for its success, blocking casual audiences out. But that's not niche. It's gaming. It's being sold across various platforms and has spawned two sequels, three even, if you start counting at Demon's Souls. Life is Strange aims for and actually appeals to (at least parts of) the mainstream. It's one of those games your girlfriend might actually try out, even when otherwise not giving a damn about games.

I'm not saying Shenmue III can't achieve one million in sales, I think it's possible. But calling Let's Get Sweaty's estimation of the game facing an uphill struggle "blatant fear mongering" makes you sound quite delusional and, way worse, fanboyish. So does listing all those well-selling franchises who found their largest audiences somewhere mid-series and comparing them to Shenmue. It's just really far-fetched. I can tell you why it worked in each and every of those cases, and why it might just not work for Shenmue. Can't be arsed right now. Might add it later.

Can we just keep things rational for once? Shenmue III might do alright, Shenmue III might also fail commercially. It sure as hell won't "revolutionize" anything. Press coverage is so-so, but then again, there's not that much to cover yet. There's probably no conspiracy against the series going on.


The best thing I took from this interview is Biscay once again confirming the originally targeted release date.

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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Himuro » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:23 am

Depends on how you define niche.

Souls is definitely niche in an era of waypoints and handholding. Its niche is clear. Games like that don't really sell the best anymore and it caters to a very specific audience. Life Is Strange is a lot more picky but at its heart it's an adventure game that emphasizes talking over fighting: the definition of niche. I remember when Demon's Souls came out. In no way was a game where you die repeatedly and repeat things over and over not spell out niche. You said it's niche yourself by saying it relies upon core gamers. That is the very definition of niche. As in, it caters to a specific niche of the gaming public. Now you're trying to tell me that an adventure game like Life Is Strange isn't niche? What's next, Undertale? You seem to think niche means something that doesn't sell.

Nothing I said was fanboyish. I even conceded that Shenmue III isn't guaranteed for success. But it has a lot going for it that many of you aren't considering. Let's say Shenmue III is demoed at Sony shows like No Man's Sky. Do you really think the game will struggle to amass 1 million units across two platforms? We don't know what Sony's marketing deal will include but if they give YS net the stage like they did at E3 2015, imo you're a fool if you think this game is doomed.

I think Shenmue will still be niche. But niche doesn't mean unsuccessful. Thinking Shenmue 1/2 needs to be re-released for III to be successful is completely ignoring game sales history.

Yes, you can tell me why all of those games I listed did well. And that reason? Marketing. Before Final Fantasy VII was released, in North America at least, Square Japan considered previous Final Fantasy sales as a failure because it wasn't that popular. People didn't really play RPGs on consoles. How did Square and Sony get people into the idea of a console rpg to the general public? Marketing. How did they sell a seventh game in a series that had never seen the light of day in Europe? Marketing. Shenmue 1/2 had two things against them: they were on the wrong systems and marketing. Dreamcast sold too poorly. When Shenmue II Xbox came out it virtually zero marketing and was a surprise release. It's no wonder it bombed. It was sent to die.

There are more than a few obstacles for the series but I think a lot of the dialogue on this forum is very unrealistically negative. I think that's normal after all this time without Shenmue but the cards are stacked in our favor. I think it would be foolish to continue to think that Shenmue's III won't garner interest of its demoed at a high profile game show. If it's good, great. But what we need more than anything are eyeballs. Given the reaction at E3 2015, I'd say that coming to the conclusion that there's no space for Shenmue in gaming and that it will have an uphill struggle because of a few game writers is definitely on the side of fear mongering.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Let's Get Sweaty » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:30 pm

But it has a lot going for it that many of you aren't considering.


Uphill struggle != Nothing going for it

imo you're a fool if you think this game is doomed.


Uphill struggle != Doomed

coming to the conclusion that there's no space for Shenmue in gaming


Uphill struggle != No space for Shenmue



Uphill struggle == More than a few obstacles

There are more than a few obstacles for the series


Uphill struggle != Unrealistically negative...

I think a lot of the dialogue on this forum is very unrealistically negative.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Yokosuka » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:42 pm

You have the perfect example in the last hours of how a "niche" game can be a success if you put its strengths forward. Read Dead Redemption is as boring as Shenmue if you play it wrongly but the first game sold 14 million copies...

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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Himuro » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:36 pm

Yokosuka wrote: You have the perfect example in the last hours of how a "niche" game can be a success if you put its strengths forward. Read Dead Redemption is as boring as Shenmue if you play it wrongly but the first game sold 14 million copies...


Western games almost always sold poorly too so there was precedent to it not doing the best. It was a real risk.

Again. "Uphill battle."

Look at this video.

phpBB [video]


Sounds delusional to me. How is it not fear mongering.

Most people who don't know Shenmue (aka most game players) are going to think of that moment and it will have left an impression, Kickstarter "scandal" or not. Does this mean Shenmue III is guaranteed to sell 10 million copies? LOL, no. But given the platform (Sony's marketing) and its promise of being a good game (in YS Net we trust), Shenmue III is in a position most games would dream of having. That's not to say some of the misgivings and worries aren't well founded, but most of it comes of as victimized hyperbole.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby mceja » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:48 pm

Hyo Razuki wrote: I hope for S 1 & 2 Remasters as well, but I think even without that we can still get our sales numbers. Since E3 of 2015, Shenmue has been getting massive exposure in all major gaming media, worldwide. Now be that positive or negative coverage, the name is still getting out there and a lot of people are gonna want to try S3 out.

With Yakuza for instance, number 3 has been the most successful entry so far. And that was a PS3 game, which had a much smaller user base at the time of Yakuza 3's release than the PS2 had at Yakuza 1 and 2's release. That's also kind of mid-story. If you haven't played 1 and 2, you won't be able to understand Yakuza 3's story to the fullest but you can still follow it and have fun with the game.

It's basically the same with S3. You'll never understand the full depth of the story and all its characters but you'll still be perfectly able to follow the main story line. You can easily sum up S1 and S2's story to make it accessible to newcomers with the cinema shorts YS Net have planned.



that is true,I played first shenmue 2 and that just made me to want to know more about the history
and consequently play shenmue 1 immediately after.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Anonymous81 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:27 pm

Good interview. I think the pragmatism of all involved actually makes success more likely rather than less. And we know Yu is legendarily good at managing budgets and making the best possible use of them. The question for me is not whether a good Shenmue game will come out of development with the budget they have, but rather how it will be received in the gaming media. Like it or not, the gaming media dictates whether a game just does "okay," or breaks through and becomes a huge hit.

Fortunately, a game like Shenmue 3 doesn't need to sell millions upon millions of copies in order to be profitable, because of the structure of their budget and how funds were obtained. And because of Sony's willingness to essentially take the physical distribution hit entirely on PS4. All of that cannot be understated in terms of how important they are for what kinds of numbers the game likely has to do to be profitable.

And with digital distribution, we've seen games sell a few hundred thousand copies and go on to become very profitable, and even launch franchises. I have great optimism Shenmue 3 will do exactly that. Especially since I'm sure the game will be much more accessible to newcomers than Shenmue 1 & 2 (whether we want that ourselves, or not, it's essential for the future of the franchise that S3 not be a niche game with only niche appeal. They can pack it with verisimilitude and dense, rich detail and interactivity like we all demand from Shenmue, while still having more approachable controls for instance.)

I think the game will absolutely be a success. The only question will be, how large a success? I always remain optimistic though, while also being realistic about the challenges. Especially from the gaming media.

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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Hazuki00 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:31 am

Some friends told me that they would like to play Shenmue 1 and 2 before founding Shenmue 3 because they want to know the story of the saga so that they can play Shenmue 3 knowing all the detayls of the story. That could be some of the reason the kickstarter doesn't have much more success.

About Shenmue 1 and 2, I'm not so sure the people would welcome them with open arms because we all know how slowly the story develops, Shenmue 1 mainly. For this reason, people who try Shenmue 1 and 2 could not buy Shenmue 3, they could think Shenmue 3 is as slow pace as the previous and don't like it.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Rikitatsu » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:48 pm

Hazuki00 wrote: Some friends told me that they would like to play Shenmue 1 and 2 before founding Shenmue 3 because they want to know the story of the saga so that they can play Shenmue 3 knowing all the detayls of the story. That could be some of the reason the kickstarter doesn't have much more success.

About Shenmue 1 and 2, I'm not so sure the people would welcome them with open arms because we all know how slowly the story develops, Shenmue 1 mainly. For this reason, people who try Shenmue 1 and 2 could not buy Shenmue 3, they could think Shenmue 3 is as slow pace as the previous and don't like it.


Same here, literally all of the people I know who are interested in Shenmue 3 say they have to play 1&2 first.
An HD remaster of 1&2 will be paramount to Shenmue 3's sucess.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby punkmanced » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:14 pm

HD re-releases are of the utmost importance in Shenmue's case. The story is way too personal and linear for unacquainted gamers to just randomly jump in. This isn’t Final Fantasy/ Elder Scrolls/ etc.

Plus, we’re talking about games that have been MIA for the past 15 or so years. At this point, they’re a necessity one way or another. This should be common sense.

At the very least, let’s hope YS Net has the decency to include a comprehensive Shenmue: The Movie type recap, should these ports not see the light of day before S3’s release date. The objective here is, ideally, to sell 1M+ copies, which would be mechanically impossible to achieve by sorely relying on the existing fanbase.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Spaghetti » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:26 am

punkmanced wrote:At the very least, let’s hope YS Net has the decency to include a comprehensive Shenmue: The Movie type recap, should these ports not see the light of day before S3’s release date. The objective here is, ideally, to sell 1M+ copies, which would be mechanically impossible to achieve by sorely relying on the existing fanbase.

I don't think that's the best idea. Something that large is going to be seriously unwieldy to get into, and probably turn players off before they even start the game.

Yu said he'd like to include a digest movie like in Shenmue II, so we'll probably get a condensed 6-8 minute video recapping both games. There's also the cinema shorts, and Yu also alluded to including flashbacks in-game. That's probably the smarter way of doing things, instead of beating players over the head with a lengthy recap.
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Re: Cédric Biscay interview by Shenmue Master

Postby Kiske » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:30 am

punkmanced wrote: HD re-releases are of the utmost importance in Shenmue's case. The story is way too personal and linear for unacquainted gamers to just randomly jump in. This isn’t Final Fantasy/ Elder Scrolls/ etc.

Plus, we’re talking about games that have been MIA for the past 15 or so years. At this point, they’re a necessity one way or another. This should be common sense.


Agree 100%
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