should SEGA die if it meant continuing shenmue?

[mrandyk]

Sega already died, so killing this rendition wouldn't bug me one bit. I kind of wish they had never continued after the Dreamcast anyways, just to protect their legacy.

[JohnnyBravo]

I know that I am going to get a lot of people coming to the hills after me with pitchforks singing "Sumer Is Icumen In" as if to re-enact a deleted scene from The Wicker Man for what I am about to say next, but Sega being killed isn't what I want. I think Sega are doing pretty well for themselves at the moment and are making some pretty decent games. I honestly fail to see exactly why Sega at the moment is being portrayed as Atilla the Hun's and Elizabeth Bathory's demonic lovechild. To say that they are deliberately holding Yu Suzuki back from making Shenmue 3 conjures up a picture of the VIPs of Sega Japan standing in a pristine building cackling wildly at ruining people's lives. Do they despise Suzuki for Shenmue? No, they are in good standing and in close contact. Do they avoid Shenmue like the plague? No, in fact we have had more Shenmue merchandise in recent years from Sega than Suzuki. I think that Sega have been slowly starting to rejuvenate the Shenmue franchise a lot recently after that long dark age we had from 2006-2009: Ryo appeared in Sega All Stars, we got the Shenmue apparel, Sega of Japan released trading cards of Shenhua, we now have a statue of Ryo Hazuki with a Lan Di statue next in line - all of these things have been approved by Sega. They also bothered themselves with Yu Suzuki's Shenmue Town game by giving him the license for it. I don't think that Sega are technically a huge evil suppressing Shenmue 3's development. Shenmue is becoming more and more flaunted now supposedly to 'test the waters' of interest. If Shenmue was 100% dead to Sega, they wouldn't bother putting it back out there. Many dead games which were meant to have sequels and are considered the downfall to a company that I know about anyway have not done what Sega is doing. So no, Sega should stay alive. I like what they are doing with their games at the moment and a lot of Dreamcast classics are being brought back into the limelight.

...Oh by the way, I'm new!

[nskachu]

Yes.

[gabril]

I know that I am going to get a lot of people coming to the hills after me with pitchforks singing "Sumer Is Icumen In" as if to re-enact a deleted scene from The Wicker Man for what I am about to say next, but Sega being killed isn't what I want. I think Sega are doing pretty well for themselves at the moment and are making some pretty decent games. I honestly fail to see exactly why Sega at the moment is being portrayed as Atilla the Hun's and Elizabeth Bathory's demonic lovechild. To say that they are deliberately holding Yu Suzuki back from making Shenmue 3 conjures up a picture of the VIPs of Sega Japan standing in a pristine building cackling wildly at ruining people's lives. Do they despise Suzuki for Shenmue? No, they are in good standing and in close contact. Do they avoid Shenmue like the plague? No, in fact we have had more Shenmue merchandise in recent years from Sega than Suzuki. I think that Sega have been slowly starting to rejuvenate the Shenmue franchise a lot recently after that long dark age we had from 2006-2009: Ryo appeared in Sega All Stars, we got the Shenmue apparel, Sega of Japan released trading cards of Shenhua, we now have a statue of Ryo Hazuki with a Lan Di statue next in line - all of these things have been approved by Sega. They also bothered themselves with Yu Suzuki's Shenmue Town game by giving him the license for it. I don't think that Sega are technically a huge evil suppressing Shenmue 3's development. Shenmue is becoming more and more flaunted now supposedly to 'test the waters' of interest. If Shenmue was 100% dead to Sega, they wouldn't bother putting it back out there. Many dead games which were meant to have sequels and are considered the downfall to a company that I know about anyway have not done what Sega is doing. So no, Sega should stay alive. I like what they are doing with their games at the moment and a lot of Dreamcast classics are being brought back into the limelight.

...Oh by the way, I'm new!

good point! thanks you

[ys]

Call me Mr. Pessimistic, but I don't think gamers will flock to the shops to buy a game based around choosing what you want for breakfast.

I'm not too sure. People missed things like these in GTA4 from what I've read. The needing to eat part, training etc. And I don't think Shenmue would be based around that specifically Rather the general concept of having choice.

I would rather see them get bought by another company at this point. I used to dislike this but it feels as if they could benefit from being part of a real gaming company. Sammy don't really care much about the console business in itself. They have criticized the bad performance of their "consumer products" before so I wonder if they wouldn't consider selling some IP/teams.

I think that Sega have been slowly starting to rejuvenate the Shenmue franchise a lot recently after that long dark age we had from 2006-2009: Ryo appeared in Sega All Stars, we got the Shenmue apparel, Sega of Japan released trading cards of Shenhua, we now have a statue of Ryo Hazuki with a Lan Di statue next in line - all of these things have been approved by Sega.

...Oh by the way, I'm new!

True, the series has been more visible lately in that way. But I always have in the back of my mind that they might just be trying to capitalize a bit on the fans without investing too much or having any real further plans. I'm probably too cynical

Welcome by the way.

[Crimson Ryan]

Was this topic started as a joke?

[JohnnyBravo]

For me personally the thing which really disproves that idea is Shenmue Town. Shenmue Town is officially the 3rd game in the Shenmue series. When Shenmue 3 is announced, it will be called the ‘fourth game in the series’ and not the ‘third.’ So technically, the Shenmue series is still alive and being continued to this day though we may not fully realise it. Sega and Suzuki wanted to release a Shenmue game before S3 that wasn't S3 but more of a MMO/Shenmue Online title and I think that Shenmue Town is the downgraded version of Shenmue Online. Sega and Suzuki would not have bothered investing the money back in 2010 for the third game if it were to ultimately lead to nothing in the long term. It would have been a waste and they would have been better off putting that money for a new Silver the Hedgehog game which would have done considerably better – so therefore their choice was deliberate and they have an intention behind their decision to invest in the Shenmue franchise once more. What is more, if Sega wanted to make a lot more money and if Shenmue was really dead to them, then logically they would not be trying to cash in on the Shenmue fanbase at all due to the risk of Shenmue routinely underperforming in its sales. Ryo would have never appeared in All Stars nor would they have made the apparel or merchandise or even the 3rd game in the series - instead they would have put all that money making more Sonic statues and Sonic Adventure T shirts - these would sell a lot better than Shenmue and I think we can all admit that. For them to refuse doing that for more Shenmue limelight is a deliberate action to test the interest of fans. What this says to me is that Shenmue is slowly and sensibly trying to be popular again while testing its reception to new and old consumers. This to me does not sound like a random decision but rather intended to bring Shenmue back. If Sega did not make Shenmue Town, I would probably agree that they are milking the fans, but to invest in a new entry in the series while all of this is going on just looks very intentional.

[Let's Get Sweaty]

I'll say the same thing I always say in response to "Ryo was in Sega All-Stars so they obviously have plans" comments: Where's that new Alex Kidd game?

[JohnnyBravo]

Challenge accepted Alex Kidd and everyone else were rightly in that game as part of fan service in view of the games title as he was in Sega all stars Tennis and ASRT. Alex Kidd hasn't had a game out since the 1990's and served as Sega's mascot in a different time until Sonic came along with greater success and effectively became the new Alex Kidd. Shenmue in comparison is much more alive than Alex Kidd, having its official third game released in 2010 for the new consumers. Suzuki specifically made the game to revitalise the franchise and help determine whether a Shenmue 3 would be wanted. Alex Kidd hasn't had such privileges lately. So there is a big difference between Alex Kidd and Shenmue.

[Let's Get Sweaty]

The 2010 game was a mobile title that was never released outside Japan and was shut down after a year. Not a terribly encouraging sign for any home console title being in the works.

[JohnnyBravo]

Never said a home console title was in the works. Mobile games typically do not last a long time; it would have shut down sooner or later as we are now living in a smartphone age. Suzuki closed the mobile version because he specifically wanted to port it to the smartphone which he had been saying he wanted to do six months prior to its ‘failure.’ So the closing of the mobile version was not sudden due to poor reception but rather a premeditated decision seeing as it would be more appropriate. Nothing was mentioned about sales being devastating, that has been sensationalised by media. But if you look at the facts and his statements, he wanted to do this far before it happened. Suzuki knew what he was getting into by making it specifically for new consumers and having it yield no profit unless the person 'buys something' in the game which realistically would never happen when you have a free game to play. Suzuki closed it because he wanted it ported over as he said himself; the reason as to why that port hasn't happened is also the reason why YS Net is comprised of eight people who haven't updated their website since 2012. It served its purpose as a reintroduction of the Shenmue franchise, got some new people aware of Shenmue and whether it gets ported to smartphones is up to Yu but mobile games typically do not last very long so even if he did we would not have it forever.

You cannot defeat me Sweaty. My skills are unmatched.

[mue 26]

Shenmue Gai came out like nearly 3 years ago and nothing has happened since. I have seen no evidence of a "sensible plan to re-introduce the series", Ryo was included in that racing game because Sumo specifically requested it as they are big Shenmue fans, Sega just allowed it , and he's not even the sequel anyway. The Shenmue clothing and statue is just Sega cashing in on the few duckets they can get out of the Shenmue IP without having to actually do anything themselves. I guess they figure that times are hard and every penny counts now.

Shenmue Gai was a desperate shot in the dark that achieved next to nothing, and the merchandise is just a way to cash in on existing hardcore Shenmue fans. If Sega were serious about testing the waters and introducing the series to new fans, we would have seen Shenmue HD.

[JohnnyBravo]

Don’t 100% agree with you there Mue. If Sega really cared about Shenmue's revival we would see Shenmue HD. Why? What's so special about the HD's? Couldn't they just be cash-in's by themselves? They could come and go and we would still be saying that Sega are milking us dry since they haven't made S3. “Shenmue HD for Nintendo 3DS” – two years pass, “oh, it was just a cash-in.” And by that same logic, why release the HD’s at all when Shenmue 1 & 2 both underperformed in sales? A more sensible approach: first see how Shenmue achieves on smaller merchandise pieces, then confidently release the HD’s, then S3. Also, if Sega were to make better money they wouldn't release Shenmue merchandise as cash-ins but more Sonic statues which would sell a lot better. Why cash-in on an underperforming franchise when you have far more successful I.P.s to hand?
YS Net is a small company with a small budget. Suzuki not porting Shenmue Town to smartphone is down to him; it bears no reflection on the game’s reception. He cancelled it to correct the port which he should have thought about in the first place. Also, Ryo wasn't present in ASRT because Sumo said how Ryo was not fitting to the theme that they were going for in that game - Ryo in a plane, sailing a boat and driving over lava? In their latest podcast Seganerds interviewed Steve Lycett and around the halfway point he says that there was a very ‘obvious winner’ to the 2012 DLC poll, he asked Sega of Japan if the character could appear in later entries in the series to which they said yes. Regardless, a snippet of what I originally said has been capitalised on. I didn’t come here to say that S3 is in the works because of the statue, DLC or hoodie. I said that Sega are giving Shenmue a lot more service recently - possibly to rejuvenate it. Whether they are or not is up to opinion, but the main point I came here for was to disagree with painting Sega as the bully. Sega are not evil, they are not bullying Suzuki & they are not stealing Shenmue away from Suzuki. Speaking of Shenmue Town and holding the license back from Suzuki, didn’t they willingly give Suzuki the license to make that mobile game?

[mue 26]

What is so special about Shenmue HD? It would be as close to a revival of the franchise as we could get, it's the perfect way to re-launch the series. It would be a proper Shenmue release that people actually want and have been asking for. It would make the game accessible to everyone who doesn't own a Dreamcast and is willing to pay the hefty price that Shenmue on DC now commands (that's a LOT of people). It would also generate a considerable (or at least a moderate) buzz in gaming press. You want to rejuvenate the franchise, you want to test the selling power of it, this is what you do. Yeah Sega would cash in with Shenmue HD (which is what we've been telling them!), but they would actually have to do a bit of work first, and they would be sending a real tacit statement to the world that they actually intend to do something with the franchise.

Your asking why Sega would release Shenmue statues and clothes when Sonic would sell more, but I think your misunderstanding the situation, Johnny. Sega aren't the ones actually making and selling these statues and clothes, other companies are, Sega are just pimping out the license to these companies for an easy dollar that requires no effort for their own part. They already do the same thing with Sonic. I just can't conclude from the fact that Sega have finally started whoring out the Shenmue IP in insignificant ways (which coincides with the company being hard up of late) that they have intentions to relaunch the franchise.

I don't really understand what your saying about Shenmue Gai to be honest.

Sega are not evil, they are not bullying Suzuki & they are not stealing Shenmue away from Suzuki. Speaking of Shenmue Town and holding the license back from Suzuki, didn’t they willingly give Suzuki the license to make that mobile game?

This is all old ground we're covering here, Johnny. No one is saying that Sega are evil. But we are saying that they aren't doing anything worthwhile with Shenmue, nor do they display any intentions of doing so (as we've just discussed). Yu Suzuki, on the other hand, has stated time and again that he wants the license. Make of that what you will.

I'm not trying to argue, but these are the objective facts.

[JohnnyBravo]

This isn’t an argument. I’m actually enjoying making the most of these threads and encouraging debates as I’ve never used the Dojo before. I just came here with the impression that a forum is meant to encourage conversation and friendly debate. I think you and Sweaty know I can be very opinionated and enjoy presenting my ideas to you guys a lot over at the Shenmue UK forums so I’m just trying to get into some similar deep discussions here to get a feel for the Dojo community. Though I hope I haven’t come off as dictating, this is just the way I am. I genuinely enjoy passionately debating about franchises I love to promote conversation and introspection; I hope my passion is obvious and not mistaken as trolling.

Getting back into it then, I agree with you on what you say there. I think the point I was originally trying to make has been missed entirely. What I said in my first post here was that I did not want Sega to be out of the picture for the sake of Shenmue 100% entirely and that although they are perceived in a poor light, I can’t help but feel that ironically Sega are doing more things with Shenmue than Suzuki is at the moment. Yes other companies are asking them, but Sega is ultimately approving it and licensing it. This would never have happened during that Dark Age of 2006-2009. What I then went on to say was that there could be a possibility (I stress the word possibility) that this is intentional. Or maybe not, but even so maybe Sega will receive such a great response from all these *winks* they are putting out to the fans that it could eventually lead to a Shenmue HD. It was a thought, but it wasn’t my main point. To call Sega all the names under the sun – which everyone doesn’t do but I have seen some do and it does happen – makes me question them, because at least Sega are still putting Shenmue goods out there. Yes they may be cashing in, but at least they are doing something more constructive with Shenmue than Suzuki is at this moment. That is what I was saying, that Sega are achieving slightly more with Shenmue than Suzuki is and so shouldn’t really be spat on. I still say if there is a way that Sega could make Shenmue I would heartily accept it, because I do fear a little if Suzuki would screw up S3 just as he did Shenmue Town. Just my thoughts. I don’t want Sega dead and I don’t think they are an adversary as some people are painting them as.