The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby shredingskin » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:08 am

I think that some expectations are quite high.

Yakuza for being a 3D brawler is top notch and has been maturing for more than a decade (Ex. the witcher 3 feels so clunky and it recieved a lot of praise despite). I don't think SIII will top that, they have to do a whole new system from scratch (and it'll be different from the original), hopefully it'll be serviceable, but I'm not keeping my hopes THAT up (and if it doesn't I hope they give more spotlight to the adventure/investigation aspect).

Graphics wise I think it'll be fairly competent, UE4 is still on the peak, and the models they've shown look pretty good.

Facial animations... I don't think we'll see much better than we have seen, hopefully more synchronized and it'll mesh better with audio, handmade animations for big cutscenes (again hopefully).

But then again, all we have seen is ok tier indie, but at this point SIII must be having a budget of what ? 15/20 million ?? (considering that Cedrick said after the KS that most of the money comes from Shibuya, so I guess it's more than the 6.5 millions and now with deep silver) That's quite a lot to expect "indie game level".

Let's put things into perspective: Hellblade budget was "way below 10 million", around 200-300k sales to make a profit (so $6-9 mill @$30 per game), and it's quite an achievement. But the game is a very simple, 8 hour singleplayer, only a couple of characters, little dialogue, with few enemies.
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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:53 am

sand4fish wrote: ^ Troll or not, views like the one above is what alienate gamers outside the Shenmue fanbase. Games nowadays have been better than ever. Advances in technology allow so much complexity and depth in gameplay on modern games that if all future Shenmue titles will do is update its graphics, then the series will surely be bound to be just one of those indie projects that all that is aiming to do is capture the feeling of the past gaming eras.

QTEs are so obsolete by now as cinematic action moments can be done in gaming without them (see the Uncharted series) and fighting in 3D space has gone such a long way since Shenmue (see For Honor). It would be such a downgrade in vision by Yu Suzuki, a designer known to always innovate with each creation, to just follow the old mechanics of the previous titles to a tee.


What is this "complexity and depth" you speak of? That's absolutely so untrue. If anything, nowadays games are the exact opposite because they cater to casuals so much. Let's take a fighting game as an example. Street Fighter V. Even Yoshinori Ono himself admitted that they simplified the gameplay so that casuals could get into it. And For Honor? Seriously? For Honor's combat isn't even martial arts based, it's developed entirely around the use of weapons so they're not really comparable. And besides, it's combat isn't better than Shenmue. That's for sure. Look I've played many modern and games from the past alike. Things like Uncharted 4, The Last Of Us, Ocarina Of Time, Okami etc. Shenmue is better than every single one of them.

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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:59 am

shredingskin wrote: I think that some expectations are quite high.

Yakuza for being a 3D brawler is top notch and has been maturing for more than a decade (Ex. the witcher 3 feels so clunky and it recieved a lot of praise despite). I don't think SIII will top that, they have to do a whole new system from scratch (and it'll be different from the original), hopefully it'll be serviceable, but I'm not keeping my hopes THAT up (and if it doesn't I hope they give more spotlight to the adventure/investigation aspect).

Graphics wise I think it'll be fairly competent, UE4 is still on the peak, and the models they've shown look pretty good.

Facial animations... I don't think we'll see much better than we have seen, hopefully more synchronized and it'll mesh better with audio, handmade animations for big cutscenes (again hopefully).

But then again, all we have seen is ok tier indie, but at this point SIII must be having a budget of what ? 15/20 million ?? (considering that Cedrick said after the KS that most of the money comes from Shibuya, so I guess it's more than the 6.5 millions and now with deep silver) That's quite a lot to expect "indie game level".

Let's put things into perspective: Hellblade budget was "way below 10 million", around 200-300k sales to make a profit (so $6-9 mill @$30 per game), and it's quite an achievement. But the game is a very simple, 8 hour singleplayer, only a couple of characters, little dialogue, with few enemies.


Sorry but, "Facial animations... I don't think we'll see much better than we have seen" what? You do know that the Gamescom teaser had no facial animations right? They removed them due to some technical difficulties, but point being, we haven't seen any so how could you say that? Also, Yakuza's combat system isn't even better than Shenmue 1 and 2, so unless it regresses somehow (which is ridiculous and not very likely at all) then it's already guaranteed to be better.
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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Hyo Razuki » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:51 am

Riku Rose wrote: The game is being made by a guy who hasn’t released a game not on a mobile phone since 2001.


Right now, I don't remember Yu's exact involvement in Beach Spikers and Outrun 2 and its numerous iterations but there are at least two post-S2 releases I can think of from the top of my mind.

VF 4 Evolution (2002 or 2003) which came out on Naomi if my memory is right and was ported to PS2 and also Sega Race TV (2008) which came out on Lindbergh. But it's been nine years since 2008 so I kind of get what you're getting at.


Riku Rose wrote: Although I still can’t wait for the review thread here and watching everyone cry when someone dislikes the game.

It seems kind of entertaining sometimes, reading salty comments from gamers about negative reviews for their beloved franchises but I think we should be careful with that edge. Some people don't know when to stop and that could make the Shenmue fan base look bad as a whole.

I hope nobody will take it to the Zelda fan level with S3. When Jim Sterling gave Zelda Breath of the Wild a 7/10, some idiot fanboys threatened his life and others ddosed his website. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against criticizing reviewers and if someone can point out how and where a review is wrong, I even appreciate when people confront reviewers with that. But sending death threats to people and attacking websites? That's where I draw the line and in such cases I personally always take the reviewer's/journalist's side and am never on the side of the game or the fans who do such things.

And what's more, to strike back, Jim Sterling has now turned BotW into some kind of running gag for his YT channel and his articles and occasionally knocks BotW or the Zelda fan base even in articles or videos which aren't even related to Zelda. And I get it, it's entertaining as a non-fan. I couldn't stop myself from chuckling when I saw Jim Sterling's review about Sonic Forces titled "I'm not SAYING this is better than Breath of the Wild, BUT..." last week, but I still don't want this to happen to Shenmue.

The best way to prevent this from happening would obviously be for Yu to release a game so good, it won't receive a lot of criticism.

That said, I personally think some "crying" as you called it, should be allowed, as long as they keep it to Shenmue-related websites and don't go over the top.


sand4fish wrote:
QTEs are so obsolete by now as cinematic action moments can be done in gaming without them (see the Uncharted series) and fighting in 3D space has gone such a long way since Shenmue (see For Honor). It would be such a downgrade in vision by Yu Suzuki, a designer known to always innovate with each creation, to just follow the old mechanics of the previous titles to a tee.


Actually Uncharted uses QTE's quite a lot, mostly in set pieces and I think Shenmue can learn a lot from it. It mostly does it in a more subtle fashion than Shenmue did and the commands don't always pop up on your screen, but still there are a lot of momemnts where you are on some kind of battlefield having a shootout with the bad guys but no matter what you do, you'll always have to pass one specific point on the map and once you pass that point, this huge guy appears out of nowhere and starts choking Drake and you have to repaetedly tap the button displayed on screen. If you fail to register x amount of button presses during a set time frame, you die.

Or there are a lot of moments, where for example only throwing your rope at that passing truck can save you. The L1 button does not appear on screen but those are QTEs if I've ever seen one. Only that one button, pressed during a specific time frame can save you and if you fail, the sequence repeats itself.

Or remember the „Cruisin for a Bruisin“ level in Uncharted 3? That level is rife with scripted events. It's just done in a very crafty and again subtle way and blends in so smoothly with the real action, it actually gives the player the feeling of making their way off the sinking ship freely.

And I think this is where Yu can learn from modern „AAA“ games. More subtle QTEs, better camera, smoother controls.

However, I hope he also won't follow „modern“ games blindly and fall for the typical weaknesses of a lot of modern-day „AAA“ games such as big, empty maps, microtransactions, repetitive mission structure, unfinished releases which need patches to make them worth playing, sometimes even months after release, cut out content being passed off as „dlc“ and so forth.

So, in short, I hope Yu will take from modern gaming what's good and discard what's bad.

Rest assured however, Yu already said, he plans innovating on QTEs, such as using sounds or colors, or just the situation presented on screen to give the player a hint at what to press. Also every time he has talked about free battle, he never said he'd just continue the old fighting system but he wants to give the game something fresh and fun to play, especially when it comes to fighting multiple enemies at the same time.

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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby KidMarine » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:23 am

Riku Rose wrote: Although I still can’t wait for the review thread here and watching everyone cry when someone dislikes the game.

Sounds like you've got a lot going on in your life.

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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Riku Rose » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:44 pm

KidMarine wrote: I'm so conflicted. I don't think Forces looks very good, but when I see lazy shit ignorant posts like shredingskin's I want to buy a copy out of spite.


Guess that makes two of us.
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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby sand4fish » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:56 pm

Shenmue_Legend wrote:What is this "complexity and depth" you speak of? That's absolutely so untrue. If anything, nowadays games are the exact opposite because they cater to casuals so much.

As example, look at the strategy genre scene. In games of the past most battles are confined within an area, at most maybe civilizations fighting each other for the dominance of a planet. Nowadays, there are games (see Planetary Annihilation) that take battles on multiple fronts: land, air, space, other planets... Simultaneously! While someone has his full focus on securing a victory within a planet, another is losing battle after battle to diverge attention from the fact that he dedicated all his resources instead on building up a Death Star type of weapon from space with the end goal of pulverizing said planet altogether with the enemy main army and win the galactic war. Now that's strategy. Can you really go back and play old Starcraft 1 after knowing that there are games out there with a much grander scope and vision?

Shenmue_Legend wrote: Street Fighter V. Even Yoshinori Ono himself admitted that they simplified the gameplay so that casuals could get into it.

Having simplified gameplay is not the same as being a less complex game. Just looking at the myriads of block, counter and gauge mechanics already tell me SF V has come a long way since the days of SF II. If the game was just truly made for the casual crowd, I find it hard to believe that it would still be featured on EVO championships year after year, and played by professional gamers around the world.

Shenmue_Legend wrote:And For Honor? Seriously? For Honor's combat isn't even martial arts based, it's developed entirely around the use of weapons so they're not really comparable.

Yes, seriously go look at the concept of martial arts first. And that was not my point anyway. For Honor has refined 3D fighting mechanics with concepts such as targeting specific body parts, stamina based attack and defense, terrain advantage and even using it as a weapon. It's simply not just a 2D fighting mechanic transported to a 3D space like most of the genre.

Shenmue_Legend wrote:And besides, it's combat isn't better than Shenmue. That's for sure.

Sure. Keep telling yourself that. I got no problem with it.

Shenmue_Legend wrote:Look I've played many modern and games from the past alike. Things like Uncharted 4, The Last Of Us, Ocarina Of Time, Okami etc. Shenmue is better than every single one of them.

So tell that to Bill Gates ASAP and have those $15M running already.


Hyo Razuki wrote:Actually Uncharted uses QTE's quite a lot, mostly in set pieces and I think Shenmue can learn a lot from it. It mostly does it in a more subtle fashion than Shenmue did and the commands don't always pop up on your screen, but still there are a lot of momemnts where you are on some kind of battlefield having a shootout with the bad guys but no matter what you do, you'll always have to pass one specific point on the map and once you pass that point, this huge guy appears out of nowhere and starts choking Drake and you have to repaetedly tap the button displayed on screen. If you fail to register x amount of button presses during a set time frame, you die.

You are right. All I was trying to say is that we do not need to conform ourselves with the archaic input on screen to get that cinematic moment fix in our games today.
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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:31 pm

sand4fish wrote:
Shenmue_Legend wrote:What is this "complexity and depth" you speak of? That's absolutely so untrue. If anything, nowadays games are the exact opposite because they cater to casuals so much.

As example, look at the strategy genre scene of today. In games of the past most battles are confined within an area, at most maybe civilizations fighting each other for the dominance of a planet. Nowadays, there are games (see Planetary Annihilation) that take battles on multiple fronts: land, air, space, other planets... Simultaneously! While someone has his full focus on securing a victory within a planet, another is losing battle after battle to diverge attention from the fact that he dedicated all his resources instead on building up a Death Star type of weapon from space with the end goal of pulverizing said planet altogether with the enemy main army and win galactic war. Can you really go back and play old Starcraft 1 after knowing that there are games out there with a much grander scope and vision?

Shenmue_Legend wrote: Street Fighter V. Even Yoshinori Ono himself admitted that they simplified the gameplay so that casuals could get into it.

Having simplified gameplay is not the same as being a less complex game. Just looking at the myriads of block, counter and gauge mechanics already tell me SF V has come a long way since the days of SF II. If the game was just truly made for the casual crowd, I find it hard to believe that it would still be featured on EVO championships year after year, and played by professional gamers around the world.

Shenmue_Legend wrote:And For Honor? Seriously? For Honor's combat isn't even martial arts based, it's developed entirely around the use of weapons so they're not really comparable.

Yes, seriously go look at the concept of martial arts first. And that was not my point anyway. For Honor has refined 3D fighting mechanics with concepts such as targeting specific body parts, stamina based attack and defense, terrain advantage and even using it as a weapon. It's simply not just a 2D fighting mechanic transported to a 3D space like most of the genre.

Shenmue_Legend wrote:And besides, it's combat isn't better than Shenmue. That's for sure.

Sure. Keep telling yourself that. I got no problem with it.

Shenmue_Legend wrote:Look I've played many modern and games from the past alike. Things like Uncharted 4, The Last Of Us, Ocarina Of Time, Okami etc. Shenmue is better than every single one of them.

So tell that to Bill Gates ASAP and have those $15M running already.


Hyo Razuki wrote:Actually Uncharted uses QTE's quite a lot, mostly in set pieces and I think Shenmue can learn a lot from it. It mostly does it in a more subtle fashion than Shenmue did and the commands don't always pop up on your screen, but still there are a lot of momemnts where you are on some kind of battlefield having a shootout with the bad guys but no matter what you do, you'll always have to pass one specific point on the map and once you pass that point, this huge guy appears out of nowhere and starts choking Drake and you have to repaetedly tap the button displayed on screen. If you fail to register x amount of button presses during a set time frame, you die.

You are right. All I was trying to say is that we do not need to conform ourselves with the archaic input on screen to get that cinematic moment fix in our games today.


Um, Super Smash Bros is played at Evo as well. Does that mean it's a deep and technical fighting game that isn't for casual players? Of course not. I don't really care what fighting games professionals play or not. That doesn't prove that the game is complex just because they play it. In fact, a simpler and more easier game with a lower skill cap means that they have a higher chance of winning so really, there should actually be more of them playing it! The Street Fighter series is one of the many examples that shows modern does not equal better. 3rd Strike is still the best Street Fighter even though it's older. And SF2 is way better than V. I've played the latter and it's one of the worst (IV is THE worst)in the series.

Well really, the only thing that transfers over from martial arts into weapon fighting is the footwork (which is the most important thing). I don't know much about fighting with weapons so I can't say anything else but I know that footwork is the most important thing for both. Also, in Shenmue you can attack different body parts too. You can classify it as "targeting" because if you know which moves hit whichever part of the body, then you can exclusively target that area or whatever. Shenmue's combat is much more fluid and smoother. Not to mention the fights also look way better. And the diversity, variety and the uniqueness of the moves also adds on to all this.

Finally, the QTEs in Shenmue are done better than any game and are unrivaled in their awesomeness and nostalgia! They're not mindlessly used without reason, they're appropriately placed for the right situations. I LOVE hearing the "beep, beep, beep, BLINK!", sounds cool. The QTEs in Shenmue are not annoying or a chore like most games, they're very special and actually add on to the experience.

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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby sand4fish » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:55 pm

^ You make it look like the casual gamer cannot enjoy anything other than Candy Crush. God forbid if a casual happens to like Shenmue.
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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:10 pm

sand4fish wrote: ^ You make it look like the average casual gamer cannot enjoy anything other than Candy Crush and that "hardcore" games repel them.


That's exactly right though. You only have to look at the crap that they play. Since they have bad tastes and they've been playing so many bad games over the years, their minds have been brainwashed into thinking that they're actually great. Things like GTA and COD are the most popular gaming franchises today, and that tells me everything I need to know about the "average casual gamer".

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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby shredingskin » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:23 am

Shenmue_Legend wrote:
Sorry but, "Facial animations... I don't think we'll see much better than we have seen" what? You do know that the Gamescom teaser had no facial animations right? They removed them due to some technical difficulties, but point being, we haven't seen any so how could you say that? Also, Yakuza's combat system isn't even better than Shenmue 1 and 2, so unless it regresses somehow (which is ridiculous and not very likely at all) then it's already guaranteed to be better.


Because they showed a trailer just to show facial animations, and it looked pretty regular.
Also, no Shenmue combat was different, but not as polished as Yakuza's 0 games. It had a lot of wonky movements, hit detection/autosnapping, bad balancing, and even then, it was made with the VF engine, now they're going to do a new system, and from what YS said, it looks like it's going to be closer to arkham/AC combat.

Hyo Razuki wrote:
When Jim Sterling gave Zelda Breath of the Wild a 7/10, some idiot fanboys threatened his life and others ddosed his website.

He's very fat though.

sand4fish wrote: Can you really go back and play old Starcraft 1 after knowing that there are games out there with a much grander scope and vision?
If the game was just truly made for the casual crowd, I find it hard to believe that it would still be featured on EVO championships year after year, and played by professional gamers around the world.


Yes I can.
And a lot of SF pros are quite angry with the direction V took.

I don't know why this matter though, Shenmue was as "hardcore" as milk with honey.
You couldn't loose, you could retry everything or there were other paths, the difficulty decreases, you had hints everywhere, the most powerful move is pressing forward forward punch, and the most "strategy" the game uses in combat is blocking/dodge and counter attack, but you can beat 90% spamming elbow assault, come on.
The only "hardcore" thing about Shenmue is that has quite a time investment floor.

But I guess this thread turned into trolling so gradually I didn't even notice.
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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Kintor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:19 am

shredingskin wrote: I don't know why this matter though, Shenmue was as "hardcore" as milk with honey.
You couldn't loose, you could retry everything or there were other paths, the difficulty decreases, you had hints everywhere, the most powerful move is pressing forward forward punch, and the most "strategy" the game uses in combat is blocking/dodge and counter attack, but you can beat 90% spamming elbow assault, come on.
The only "hardcore" thing about Shenmue is that has quite a time investment floor.

But I guess this thread turned into trolling so gradually I didn't even notice.

No offense but I think you're really underselling the difficulty of Shenmue. The way that you describe Shenmue makes the game sound absolutely awful and does nothing to explain why so many of use regard Shenmue/Shenmue II as one of the greatest games of all time, even well over a decade later.

I bet you've played Shenmue so many times that you've completely forgotten how challenging it can be. At the beginning Shenmue throws you into the deep end, with no clear instructions and certainly none of the sign-posting common to later open world games. You get the most out of Shenmue by discovering all its hidden details and then choosing how to interact with the world. Going throw life spamming the elbow assault misses the point of the experience entirely.

I don't know how Shenmue 3 will be received at launch. I'm sure some in the media will attack Shenmue 3, as they have done in the past, just for those clickbait page views. But I don't care about that at all, what matters are what gamers really think of Shenmue 3. The original Kickstarter campaign of Shenmue 3 was a success because the game had become a genuine legend on the internet.

I believe people backed the campaign because they realise Shenmue offers a different kind of experience to what they can find in modern games like GTA V. The vision of Shenmue represents a more hardcore direction that open-world games could have followed, emphasising smaller but highly-detailed worlds, over the vast but empty sprawl that constitutes an open world environment today. I want gamers to see Shenmue 3 on its own merit; this is the hardcore experience they paid for, even if they don't fully understand what they're getting themselves into.

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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby drunkensailor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:09 am

Shenmue_Legend wrote: If they had all the funding that they needed to revolutionise and innovate once again, then Shenmue III would easily get 10/10s on many sites, just like The Last Of Us. But then again, critics and modern gamers nowadays have terrible taste and love any old crap (COD games still getting great reviews is the perfect example of this) but when it comes to the good stuff, they don't recognise it because they've been brainwashed by all the bad stuff. Only true gamers really appreciate masterpieces like Shenmue. I guess we'll have to wait and see but in terms of the experience and quality, Shenmue III is going to be absolutely top notch just like Shenmue I and II.

wow. what a bunch of crying. people have worse tastes now? go look up scores of games like Limbo, Brothers, flower, journey, heavy rain, life is strange, the last of us, witcher 3 and what have you.

for the record shenmue 1 got bombarded with terrible review scores by pro's and consumers alike, upon release.

it's clear as hell you are as clueless as anything about current generation gaming or you would not have mentioned call of duty. that game got completely trashed last year for releasing one version to similar to their past efforts. people are more critical than ever and have more diverse taste.
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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Kintor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:08 am

drunkensailor wrote:wow. what a bunch of crying. people have worse tastes now? go look up scores of games like Limbo, Brothers, flower, journey, heavy rain, life is strange, the last of us, witcher 3 and what have you.

for the record shenmue 1 got bombarded with terrible review scores by pro's and consumers alike, upon release.

it's clear as hell you are as clueless as anything about current generation gaming or you would not have mentioned call of duty. that game got completely trashed last year for releasing one version to similar to their past efforts. people are more critical than ever and have more diverse taste.

Think of it like this, in many ways gamers have become complacent because of how easy many modern games have become. It's a problem that really began with the fall of the Dreamcast and the decline of arcade gaming in general. Where many developers are now afraid to let a player fail a challenge.

Games like Gone Home are the worst examples of this, pretentious self-congratulatory narratives with almost no gameplay. Although, on the other hand you have games like Dark Souls and Cuphead that once again challenge players with their harsh difficulty, which gamers have responded quite positively too. So it's not all bad. If nothing else it will be interesting to see if Shenmue 3 resonates with the more hardcore crowd.

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Re: The Shenmue 3 Effect: What could go wrong or right

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:45 am

shredingskin wrote:
Shenmue_Legend wrote:
Sorry but, "Facial animations... I don't think we'll see much better than we have seen" what? You do know that the Gamescom teaser had no facial animations right? They removed them due to some technical difficulties, but point being, we haven't seen any so how could you say that? Also, Yakuza's combat system isn't even better than Shenmue 1 and 2, so unless it regresses somehow (which is ridiculous and not very likely at all) then it's already guaranteed to be better.


Because they showed a trailer just to show facial animations, and it looked pretty regular.
Also, no Shenmue combat was different, but not as polished as Yakuza's 0 games. It had a lot of wonky movements, hit detection/autosnapping, bad balancing, and even then, it was made with the VF engine, now they're going to do a new system, and from what YS said, it looks like it's going to be closer to arkham/AC combat.

Hyo Razuki wrote:
When Jim Sterling gave Zelda Breath of the Wild a 7/10, some idiot fanboys threatened his life and others ddosed his website.

He's very fat though.

sand4fish wrote: Can you really go back and play old Starcraft 1 after knowing that there are games out there with a much grander scope and vision?
If the game was just truly made for the casual crowd, I find it hard to believe that it would still be featured on EVO championships year after year, and played by professional gamers around the world.


Yes I can.
And a lot of SF pros are quite angry with the direction V took.

I don't know why this matter though, Shenmue was as "hardcore" as milk with honey.
You couldn't loose, you could retry everything or there were other paths, the difficulty decreases, you had hints everywhere, the most powerful move is pressing forward forward punch, and the most "strategy" the game uses in combat is blocking/dodge and counter attack, but you can beat 90% spamming elbow assault, come on.
The only "hardcore" thing about Shenmue is that has quite a time investment floor.

But I guess this thread turned into trolling so gradually I didn't even notice.


Yakuza's combat is boring and repetitive. I played Yakuza 4 when it was free on Playstation Plus and it was way worse than the combat in Shenmue. Yes, you can spam moves in Shenmue and still win but higher skilled players can show the beauty of it when you mix together different moves and make it look very cool. I mean in the Batman games, you can keep pressing the counter button and win but it's up to the player to use the system to its full potential and make it look like an action movie!

As for the facial animations video, that was freaking work in progress test footage. How the hell could you accurately predict what they're going to be like from that? It's the worst thing you could do.

And really? Trolling? So anyone that praises Shenmue on a site that is literally dedicated to it is a troll? I mean, it's in the name "Shenmue Dojo".
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