Shenmue Dojo

People do know they're not final. Actually, the popular opinion is that YSnet should have done better while the game is supposed to be finished in mid-2018. Not seeing the remaining parts of Shenmue either (minigames, capsule toys, storytelling, combat system, free gameplay, npcs) makes people naturally apprehensive about what has really been accomplished behind the doors.

Also, look at things from a personal perspective--an empathetic one.

Yu Suzuki was really trying to make this game something special, but realized he couldn't do it without outside help from someone like Deep Silver.

He cares so much about this series that he tried his hardest to make someone believe what he was doing was worthy of additional investment. To find someone out there.

Imagine the weight on your shoulders, having the expectations of the fans on you to deliver, but to know you cannot do it with the current funds, no matter how hard you try or want to. Rather than sit and say "Well, it's better than nothing(MN9), he went further.

How trying it must've been for him to ask for more help in this project. It takes a MASSIVE amount of strength to ask for help, especially on passion projects. I'm grateful that Deep Silver honored his request.

Peter wrote: Ironically, I very much doubt all the people complaining will head on over to the slacker backer page to donate some more money to the project so their complaints can be worked on and addressed more. Considering that's what it's all about at the end of the day. You want top of the range models, you pay for it. It's that simple.

Sorry thats not that simple. Even if I pay 2000$ there is zero guarantee for better models because the team can use the money for other things.

VukBZ2005 wrote:
There are Japanese that look like the current Ryo model, i.e., the one on the latest screenshots.

Normally japanese people does not have that dark skin color except Ainu people or people who working on fields. Maybe its the shading I don't know. Its not only the recial look but also some details which don't fit to Ryos original face: for exmaple the width of the head.

I don't see nothing wrong to criticize the current models as long to keep in mind that these are not the final models.

Valascaziel wrote: Also, look at things from a personal perspective--an empathetic one.

Yu Suzuki was really trying to make this game something special, but realized he couldn't do it without outside help from someone like Deep Silver.

He cares so much about this series that he tried his hardest to make someone believe what he was doing was worthy of additional investment. To find someone out there.

Imagine the weight on your shoulders, having the expectations of the fans on you to deliver, but to know you cannot do it with the current funds, no matter how hard you try or want to. Rather than sit and say "Well, it's better than nothing(MN9), he went further.

How trying it must've been for him to ask for more help in this project. It takes a MASSIVE amount of strength to ask for help, especially on passion projects. I'm grateful that Deep Silver honored his request.

I believe it was actually his plan since the very beginning. Launch a crowdfunding campaign then patiently wait for the bids from the publishers to get the missing funds at mid-development calendar. I think he didn't expect he had to wait so long to see the valuable bids happening. That would be why the pre-production phase lasted longer than what we thought.

Mr. Frozen wrote:
I don't care what they call it. It is what they are choosing to show us, and I am gonna call it out for what it is. I really hope they make the models better, but as it is right now, I think they are terrible for this day and age.

I think that your assessment of the character models is one held to a different standard than what Shenmue 3 is attempting to achieve visually. Yu Suzuki has stated numerous times that Shenmue 3 is not in pursuit of realism but of a more stylized aesthetic.


From the recent 4gamer Interview:

4 Gamer:
Do you mean to aim for realism?

Mr. Suzuki:
For example, real face expression etc. can be realized immediately by face capture.
However, we can only express people who are actually present. If we aim for entertainment as entertainment, we believe that we should exaggerate to some extent rather than expressing real things as they are.



Take for comparison the following games, Star Wars: Battlefront II and Dead or Alive Xtreme 3. Both are visually beautiful, but their art styles are very different. Perhaps this is something to bear in mind when comparing Shenmue 3 to other games.


Star Wars: Battlefront II



Dead or Alive Xtreme 3

KidMarine wrote: There's still plenty of work to do on the models. They're nowhere near final. They shouldn't have put out a trailer with unfinished models and no facial animations because people are fucking dumb and assume they're final. That's an unfortunate reality.

The environments are shaping up great, but if you think the models are anywhere near done, you're ignorant. That's all there is to it.

I disagree, I'm very happy with the Gamescom trailer. So glad they are showing their progress and if you know what you're looking at, you can see heaps of work done. However there's still a tonne of work remaining most importantly the game fight system, story, minigames, more environments, fixing up the environments, more animation etc..

Shenmue_Trilogy wrote:

Peter wrote: Ironically, I very much doubt all the people complaining will head on over to the slacker backer page to donate some more money to the project so their complaints can be worked on and addressed more. Considering that's what it's all about at the end of the day. You want top of the range models, you pay for it. It's that simple.

Sorry thats not that simple. Even if I pay 2000$ there is zero guarantee for better models because the team can use the money for other things.

Anyone with 2 brain cells would have had the sense to not take that comment as personally, and what could MY extra $5 get ME out if MY new game.

The fact this is a crowd funded title amassing to what can be categorised as a very highly publicised indie title at best really has went out of people's minds. The expectations now are completely off the charts. So that prototype Ryo model (which was good awful in retrospect) made us all cry with tears of joy, but now we are on the right track with Ryo looking like Ryo after 2 years of "fans" (yea, I use that term loosely) whining about it, everyone is a Shenmue, Ryo, eyes, hairline, cheekbone, nose, 3D modeller, animator, physics engine expert.

This whole "I know better" attitude that some of you seem to have actually makes me sick. Id love it for someone to walk into your job that you have been doing, by someone with absolutely zero experience, and say no you are doing it wrong, do it this way instead. Then have another few hundred coming behind them to tell you how to do it a little differently again. Thank god backers are backers only.

After much observation, I have found the best Ryo model, though I did post it before in another thread (or was it this one?). I think it's even better than the SO model and it is the clear best in my opinion. Here it is http://i.imgur.com/S37UQrk.jpg so who agrees?!

But Peter, I have Photoshop and can squidge in one dimension a flat screenshot of a 3D model they're still working on. Surely you concede I can do a better job at making Shenmue 3?

fittersau wrote:I disagree, I'm very happy with the Gamescom trailer. So glad they are showing their progress and if you know what you're looking at, you can see heaps of work done. However there's still a tonne of work remaining most importantly the game fight system, story, minigames, more environments, fixing up the environments, more animation etc..

Oh absolutely, they're making great strides, I'm very confident in the end product. But I think they're overestimated the average dope. Some just assume it's in its final stages and the models etc are final, and some go out of their way to create controversy. YS Net shouldn't give them any ammo, they shouldn't assume the best from people, sadly.

Seriously, the types of Photoshop "improvements" being posted are so minute, subjective, and arbitrary. And some of them are presented with an almost comical air of certainty that their fan art is the superior, ideal visualization. Is this what this forum is going to be like for the next year? I guess it's fine as a hobby, but does anyone believe YsNet staffers are over there saying, "We haven't got it quite right... we'd better trawl the fan forums for guides." Maybe NoConKid getting hired has given people false expectations? But NoConKid has professional-level skill as a 3D artist. YsNet isn't hiring Photoshop hobbyists.

Peter wrote:
This whole "I know better" attitude that some of you seem to have actually makes me sick. Id love it for someone to walk into your job that you have been doing, by someone with absolutely zero experience, and say no you are doing it wrong, do it this way instead. Then have another few hundred coming behind them to tell you how to do it a little differently again. Thank god backers are backers only.

Its not about the job - its about the product. The customer have the right to like it or dislike it. He has also the right to express his opinion - no matter how qualified the producer is.
The producer need to hit the nail in the middle to make most of the fans happy. There will be always different opinions. The problem is some fans are getting offended when someone critize the work (using arguments) of his guru and yes I do see the problem also here!

I do I agree that we should keep in mind that the models are not final and Shenmue 3 is Kickstarter compain with limited budget.

Seriously, the types of Photoshop "improvements" being posted are so minute, subjective, and arbitrary. And some of them are presented with an almost comical air of certainty that their fan art is the superior, ideal visualization. Is this what this forum is going to be like for the next year? I guess it's fine as a hobby, but does anyone believe YsNet staffers are over there saying, "We haven't got it quite right... we'd better trawl the fan forums for guides."

So in your opinion Yus Team should/will not listen to any die hard shenmue fans feedback.
The thread called "New Ryo & Shenhua models from press release". No matter if Yus team is reading here or not - at the end of the day its a discussion about the official and fan made models of the characters. Lets not make a drama of it....

But NoConKid has professional-level skill as a 3D artist. YsNet isn't hiring Photoshop hobbyists.

So its not allowed to criticize or even pick fan made model over his? The only thing matter is the product - in this case the model. There are hundrets of fan made projects with stunning graphics...for example the Tomb Raider 2 Remake.

Meh, I had a response typed out but it's a worthless exercise. Have all the opinions you want, I'm just glad I've heard it in more than multiple occasions that Suzuki-san won't be deterred in his vision and level of quality of Shenmue 3 he wants, and that no one will make him change his mind. He won't be reading message boards or social media to see what every Joe nobody wants in this game or that they think is "good" or "bad" in their treasured opinion.

Peter wrote: Meh, I had a response typed out but it's a worthless exercise. Have all the opinions you want, I'm just glad I've heard it in more than multiple occasions that Suzuki-san won't be deterred in his vision and level of quality of Shenmue 3 he wants, and that no one will make him change his mind. He won't be reading message boards or social media to see what every Joe nobody wants in this game or that they think is "good" or "bad" in their treasured opinion.

´

Source? edit, just a quick google search.

YS: I think we have to make the game so that they can. I'd like to have someone who has never played them to try it and listen to their feedback. I think we will need to fix up any parts that have strong drawbacks.

http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/0 ... uzuki.html

...and thats the right way do it imo.

i don't remember the source now but in one of the earlier interview,suzuki said that they're listening to feedback but he want to make shenmue 3 with his own vision