Kickstarter Update #47

[Himuro]

Mystified? By what? What "odd" remarks has he made? He's doing something he's never done before? The man is a gaming legend, surely he can come up with something. More than that, Shenmue's development history is full of AM2 working and doing things they've never done before, so you entire premise rings hollow. Toy character designs? We haven't seen the full character designs. Do you mean the character models? That are literally five months old?

Yokosuka, no he has no point at all.

Everything he's saying is illogical and easily disputed by looking at Shenmue 1/2's own development.

Everything he's saying is contrarian and skepticism for skepticisms sake.

Ryo looks like a toy? What?

[Zoltor]

This is ridiculous. I can't believe that there are people here who actually think that it would be viable to make Shenmue III using the original Shenmue engine.
One minute, you complain that these pre-pre-alpha screenshots don't look good enough and point to a shit Shenmue and then next you suggest that using the DC engine would somehow make it all better? As if that engine is completely flawless? Do you not understand just how limited that would make the game. Remember all of those stretch goals that we so hope to achieve? They wouldn't be possible using the old engine. Maybe Shenmue III could have been done back in the day on that engine, but we need to stop living in the past. Shenmue III isn't a game from multiple generations ago, it's a game for the current gen and that needs to be expected and accepted otherwise it isn't going to be an enjoyable experience for anyone.

And for those who think that these incredibly early screenshots suggest that YS.NET don't know what they are doing, can we please use this as a reminder of just how much things can change:

Lan Di (Project Berkley)



Lan Di (Final)

Well if the so called added freedom Yu has, is leading to lighting, and char designs like this lol, they would be better off using the original DC engine, because I don't see any improvement over such, with Yu using this new engine.

Not to mention, we don't have to be scared that Shenmue 3 will come out as a goofy mess, due to some of the mechanics Yu is currently planning on adding to the game, just because(ooh It's a new thing I can do).

To Himuro : Mystified by just being allowed to do things, he supposedly couldn't do on the DC.

Thinks like "he would like to add such" when responding to someone asking if the world will be interactive like the past game.

In another interview, he said instead of focusing on realistic physics, he would rather just make people fly in a cool way when hit.

to name a couple.

Also you must admit, Yu's idea needs to be questioned, after all, lets be real, he thinks ragdoll physics is cool=enough said.

[Amir]

Early version of Xiuying for Dreamcast:



Early Ryo/Shenhua for Dreamcast:



Early Jianmin for Dreamcast:



A lot can change in a year.

[Jibby]

Well if the so called added freedom Yu has, is leading to lighting, and char designs like this lol, they would be better off using the original DC engine, because I don't see any improvement over such, with Yu using this new engine.

Not to mention, we don't have to be scared that Shenmue 3 will come out as a goofy mess, due to some of the mechanics Yu is currently planning on adding to the game, just because(ooh It's a new thing I can do).

Oh yeah, some 16 year old engine is just exactly the same as Unreal 4, if not better! I don't see why all devs aren't using this obvious goldmine of an engine instead of their up to date, fast, and powerful ones.

Shenmue III on the DC engine would be like a professional graphics designer not using Photoshop because they 'don't see any improvement over MS Paint".

[Himuro]

To Himuro : Mystified by just being allowed to do things, he supposedly couldn't do on the DC.

Thinks like "he would like to add such" when responding to someone asking if the world will be interactive like the past game.

In another interview, he said instead of focusing on realistic physics, he would rather just make people fly in a cool way when hit.

to name a couple.

Also you must admit, Yu's idea needs to be questioned, after all, lets be real, he thinks ragdoll physics is cool=enough said.

How is saying you could do things you couldn't on the Dreamcast a bad thing and not a literal fact? Also, more than anything, he's stressed they can do the same things they did on the DC with much more ease.

Also, it's pretty clear that his "I would like to add" thing is PR speak. You really think Yu is going to put out a Shenmue game where Ryo can't interact with his environment? He said the same stuff about adding a paypal campaign. "We will see." It's pretty clear from context and language that Yu doesn't want to give up too much, combined with the fact the he can't promise everything and he's trying to keep things realistic in terms of goals. Now that fans have put almost 7 million into this game, he has an obligation to not only support fans wishes but not disappoint them. So he doesn't want to reveal too much at one time and you need to have some fucking patience.

I have no idea what your fascination with ragdoll is. Yu never said that ragdoll would be their only outlet for a physics engine. In one interview he clearly said he wishes to use ragdoll with a combination of other motion features such as mo cap. Considering his past use and history using mo cap, he says he wishes to use it again for III. Ragdoll is one element. Why concentrate on it?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to send enemies flying. Are you telling me that moves like Darkside Hazuki, Machine Gun Fist, Elbow Assault, Counter Elbow Assault, and more aren't moves that send enemies flying? Are you sure you've played Shenmue?





You realize Shenmue has ALWAYS had cool moves?

Your post and criticisms of Yu come off as pure hyperbole.

Prove to me and the rest of the board you're not trolling like you were with that stupid fighting gangsters in I thing.

[Yokosuka]

Zoltor what is the modern game you expect to be closer to Shenmue 3 in terms of graphics or technique (ragdoll aside), if you wish ?

Early version of Xiuying for Dreamcast:

Don't know who is the ingame charadesigner of final Xiuying but I always considered him/her as a genius.

[Zoltor]

Well if the so called added freedom Yu has, is leading to lighting, and char designs like this lol, they would be better off using the original DC engine, because I don't see any improvement over such, with Yu using this new engine.

Not to mention, we don't have to be scared that Shenmue 3 will come out as a goofy mess, due to some of the mechanics Yu is currently planning on adding to the game, just because(ooh It's a new thing I can do).

Oh yeah, some 16 year old engine is just exactly the same as Unreal 4, if not better! I don't see why all devs aren't using this obvious goldmine of an engine instead of their up to date, fast, and powerful ones.

Shenmue III on the DC engine would be like a professional graphics designer not using Photoshop because they 'don't see any improvement over MS Paint".

What's the point of using a more powerful engine, if the people using such, are doing way worse then what has been done with another, yet older engine?

To Himuro: it is, when a lot of the new things that such can do, is a bad thing, and Yu has expressed his desire to aim for new things, for no reason other then the fact It's something he hasn't done yet, um yea, It's a bad thing.


Considering the info he disclosed to us already, even major story scenarios, I find it unbelievable he would use PR speak, when talking about a feature that is a major Shenmue defining mechanic.

The fact he said that, and also stated the size of Shenmue 3(atleast mapping wise anyway) will be about the size of Senmue 1, It's alarming that Yu, doesn't know if he's going to beable to allow Ryo to interact with his surroundings.

Ditching a realistic physics engine, and focusing on things like that, is a huge downgrade. If I just wanted to see characters flying in just a cool way, I'll play 1 0f a million beat'em ups out there.

The moves in Shenmue were based on realistic physics as well.


The only thing Hyperbolo, is Yu pining over the ability to do new things.

I wonder if I counted how many times he has mentioned how exciting he is, about working with this new engine, and being able to do new things thanks to such that he couldn't do on the DC, It would end up being what he has spent the most time talking about.

To Yokosuka: Modern? Um that's a hard one, since nothing around these lines has been made since 2005, so yea not very modern.

The art, and such has more in common with western CGed animated movies, then any games that have been made for quite some time I'm sure.

[Jibby]

What's the point of using a more powerful engine, if the people using such, are doing way worse then what has been done with another, yet older engine?

And what are you basing that on? Some pre-pre-alpha material? If you were to take a look at ANY game this early into development cycle, they'd all look much, much worse than the final project. Is the concept of improvement over time foreign to you? Or do you expect the team to finish in 3 months and then have some beers and kick it back for a few years before deciding to actually release the game?

[Himuro]

To stress that this game isn't even in alpha yet, I'm going to show you once and for all how wrong you are and how stupid your criticisms are given the amount of time the game has been in development. Your criticisms would have (some) merit if you were criticizing a beta, but you're not even doing that. You're not even talking about a game at alpha stage. You're talking about a game that just left pre-production and is now barely into production stage. You're criticizing test screen shots to pinpoint a general aesthetic for the game that would normally be reserved for pitches rather than openly available public information. But given this is a publicly funded project, the team cannot get away with not showing progress and have to show it.

Your criticisms ring hollow and show just how ignorant you are of not only gaming in general, but game development period. Your criticisms are so bad and illogical that I'm convinced you're trolling for the sake of laughs and presenting a ridiculous contrary opinion.



Going from alpha's to betas show how even art direction can change and this game isn't even in alpha yet.

Here's FF14's alpha vs beta, notice more details in the beta:

[Jibby]

I am now convinced you're a troll.

This, combined with the lying about Shenmue 1 proves it.

[Himuro]

You talk about how Yu apparently doesn't know what he's doing and how Shenmue III won't have realistic physics. Again, you're talking out of your ass. Straight from Yu's mouth:

Yu Suzuki : Some of you may know what the Ragdoll physics is. If you release the strength of the body, it becomes like a doll, that's not really natural. That's why we're working on the «Motion Blending», adding some resistance to the muscles for example, to obtain realistic moves.

In a Virtua Fighter scene, patterns were determined by the Motion Capture, but with the Ragdoll physics, moves won't repeat over and over. If you get into something (like a wall) the reaction won't be the same. In fact, I'd like to combine the «Ragdoll Physics», the «Motion Blending» and «IK Constraint» to make the NPC and battle's reactions as real as possible.

He even opines that ragdoll by itself isn't realistic, but will be using it merely as a tool to help create more realistic physics. It's only one feature in a whole line of features.

Prove to the board you're not trolling and full of hot air. Where did you get that the game wouldn't have realistic physics? Where did you get that Yu's goal is to make it a cartoon? Is it backed with evidence or is merely an assumption or flat out lie like everything else you've told us?

[Zoltor]

You talk about how Yu apparently doesn't know what he's doing and how Shenmue III won't have realistic physics. Again, you're talking out of your ass. Straight from Yu's mouth:

Yu Suzuki : Some of you may know what the Ragdoll physics is. If you release the strength of the body, it becomes like a doll, that's not really natural. That's why we're working on the «Motion Blending», adding some resistance to the muscles for example, to obtain realistic moves.

In a Virtua Fighter scene, patterns were determined by the Motion Capture, but with the Ragdoll physics, moves won't repeat over and over. If you get into something (like a wall) the reaction won't be the same. In fact, I'd like to combine the «Ragdoll Physics», the «Motion Blending» and «IK Constraint» to make the NPC and battle's reactions as real as possible.

He even opines that ragdoll by itself isn't realistic, but will be using it merely as a tool to help create more realistic physics. It's only one feature in a whole line of features.

Prove to the board you're not trolling and full of hot air. Where did you get that the game wouldn't have realistic physics? Where did you get that Yu's goal is to make it a cartoon? Is it backed with evidence or is merely an assumption or flat out lie like everything else you've told us?

I already replied to that mess of a concept Yu has, he's taking one of the cheesiest mechanics ever made, and slapping a bandaid on such, nothing more. You can't possibly believe that statement of Yu, is the same as saying he was just kidding about getting rid of the realistic Physics engine, see here you are lmao.

[Himuro]

You talk about how Yu apparently doesn't know what he's doing and how Shenmue III won't have realistic physics. Again, you're talking out of your ass. Straight from Yu's mouth:

Yu Suzuki : Some of you may know what the Ragdoll physics is. If you release the strength of the body, it becomes like a doll, that's not really natural. That's why we're working on the «Motion Blending», adding some resistance to the muscles for example, to obtain realistic moves.

In a Virtua Fighter scene, patterns were determined by the Motion Capture, but with the Ragdoll physics, moves won't repeat over and over. If you get into something (like a wall) the reaction won't be the same. In fact, I'd like to combine the «Ragdoll Physics», the «Motion Blending» and «IK Constraint» to make the NPC and battle's reactions as real as possible.

He even opines that ragdoll by itself isn't realistic, but will be using it merely as a tool to help create more realistic physics. It's only one feature in a whole line of features.

Prove to the board you're not trolling and full of hot air. Where did you get that the game wouldn't have realistic physics? Where did you get that Yu's goal is to make it a cartoon? Is it backed with evidence or is merely an assumption or flat out lie like everything else you've told us?

I already replied to that mess of a concept Yu has, he's taking one of the cheesiest mechanics ever made, and slapping a bandaid on such, nothing more. You can't possibly believe that statement of Yu, is the same as saying he was just kidding about getting rid of the realistic Physics engine, see here you are lmao.

Ragdoll physics are not all the same. They vary from game to game and engine to engine.

Your ignorance is deafening. It's like saying all cel-shading sucks just because you don't like how one game does it. Completely silly and lacks nuance or the rationale to realize that this thing varies from game to game and isn't a homogeneous entity.

[shredingskin]

they would be better off using the original DC engine, because I don't see any improvement over such, with Yu using this new engine.

There's NOT a DC engine. Just like that, that isn't something that works on computers. They have decades old emulators to do that. It's not copy paste shit.

I'm one of those that understands that SIII could be different, (I pretty much said that "it seems to be batman, too human, sleeping dogs combat"), by YS definitions that was what I interpolated.

I care about every NPC can say the same thing 3 fucking times, that's fucking code in development that could work today, NPCs AI that's cool, object inspection (though YS was wonky on that) FUCKING AWESOME.

We have some missunderstanding, it's graphics, feel, gameplay or fighting you are talking about ?

SIII is also a chore for us to make it better, you are mixing stuff.

[shredingskin]

Early Jianmin for Dreamcast:


.

Where is that from ?