by SMDzero » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:36 am
Yu Suzuki has been a name on the tongue of many fans of Shenmue since the game exploded on to the Dreamcast scene in 1999. In fact, the name Yu Suzuki has become so synonymous with Shenmue, the two are often spoken within the same breath. With a history so entrenched in the Shenmue legacy, monumental challenges lie in the path of a legend who has embarked upon an arduous journey to reinvent himself. Shenmue 3 is Suzukis first step to breaking free from the dog-house that Sega put him in after the failure of Shenmue 2. Suzuki sits down with us and discusses his legacy, his current project, and his ambitions for the future.
Back in 2001 Sega announced that Shenmue II was cancelled on the Dreamcast. A few years later you, along with other designers here at AM2, created quite a stir when you left Sega. Can you tell us a bit about why you left and if it had anything to do with the development of Shenmue 2?
Suzuki: No. I'm not exactly sure how those events transpired but Shenmue II and us leaving didn't have too much to do with each other. Personally, I was planning [to leave] at some point in 2004 or 2005 and at that point it seemed right for us with the new systems coming out... I didn't want to just start Shenmue 3 or anything sort of mid-stream that generation.
Fall behind the stream?
Suzuki: Exactly right, because I know that would be difficult for us to kind of catch up. So we wanted to try to get involved as early as possible on Xbox 360 and PS3 and it seemed that the clock was ticking in that state. That had more to do with when I left than anything else.
What did you think of the altered version of Shenmue II that was released on Xbox, and was it vastly different from the state of the game on Dreamcast?
Suzuki: You know I really never played it, I saw it at E3 and I maybe played it for like five minutes and never really played it after that. So I'm not really familiar with how it ended up.
What did you do after leaving Sega, did you all take a break or go straight into starting your own studio?
Suzuki: No, we took a little bit of time off. I personally took some time off. I had some stuff going on in my life at the time. I had been working pretty much non-stop for 10 years or something. And there were contractual obligations we had to contend with and things like that.
Non-compete agreements?
Suzuki: Things of that nature. Once we waded through all that stuff then we were clear to move forward. And it took some time in terms of developing relationships with some of the publishers and finding the right fit for us in terms of our first project. When we left and we formed Digital Rex and started talking to the companies, they all wanted a fighting product. It was clear we weren't going to be doing Shenmue 3. So that we knew our first gig was going to be a fighting game like Virtua Fighter. Which, you know, I think we all had a lot of excitement for fighting games and I certainly had a lot of things that I wanted to investigate about them. So it was kind of a natural, and that is what they were looking for at the time.
Suzuki: Shibuya when we started working with them... they kind of knocked on our door with all these people who were interested in working with us. And as a small company we were literally four guys and we didn't have a business development guy. So those guys filled that void for us. Again, being such a small company it's not like we have our [business development] guy running around securing deals for us. So we rely on outside courses, and I think as a company we do that all over the place. There is always outsourcing that we do to fill all the voids in being such a small company, and they kind of did that for us.
When did Sony come into the picture?
Suzuki: Literally, we were looking for a publisher and they were looking for a developer to do a fighting game. So and that was it. What became Shenmue 3 was always a Microsoft Xbox project that had been cancelled since 2004...we weren't developing that game and then Sony came along and decided that they wanted to publish it. It literally was they were looking for somebody to do a fighting game and we were looking for a way to make Shenmue 3. A match made in heaven so to speak.
So it was only after Sony's deal that the game concept came together?
Suzuki: It wasn't until after we secured our deal with Sony did we start developing Shenmue 3. There was a sort of back and forth between us and them in terms of what they were looking for and what we felt was important, which is typical in the developer/publisher relationship. In terms of concept, when the relationship started we started working on the product. We literally went from four to twenty five guys in a fairly short period of time. I'd say in terms of the difficulty of developing a game, this by far was the most difficult for me only because there was not some infrastructure of a big company behind us. Literally it was us, other than the Kickstarter helping with the development costs, it was literally us just building from scratch. But we got through it fairly well, and now we are a real company: YsNet!
Where do you see the deal with Sony going in the future?
Suzuki: I don't know, I think that as a developer obviously we like the idea of cross platform development. We're really small right now, and so our ability to do that is limited. We like working on the PS4 because of it's friendliness in terms of how we develop on it. We enjoy working with Sony. But in terms of our expansion of our company, cross platform development is something we will be doing in the future. But who knows. Right now, we still hard at work on Shenmue 3 but we're kind of plotting out what our next steps are going to be.
Was there anything that inspires you guys while creating Shenmue 3, if so what did you find the most inspirational?
Suzuki: I think what inspired us was more, there was never a particular game that we looked at and tried to emulate. It really was just looking at what was out there and trying to do things a little bit differently. Not just for the sake of doing things differently, but asking ourselves questions like, as players, what kind of stuff would we like to see? And just that's kind of what dictated our influence. There wasn't really any kind of direct influence from any particular game, it was just where was the genre as a whole and how do we let that influence the directions we take? I think that other influences like, stylistically, the look of the characters and things of that nature, and the theme of the game came from my affinity for Chinese mythology and Hong Kong cinema. That stuff has been with me since High School and that stuff influenced me on Shenmue, and continues to influence me. So that played a big part of the direction that the game took as well. In terms of designing the characters, I work with some of the other artists here. There is a guy named Toshihiko Masada who is on staff here and another guy named Manabu Takimoto who is on staff here. And of obviously Kenji Miyawaki who is our lead character designer. Everybody had a hand in the look of the [game].
Where did the title "Shenmue" come from?
Suzuki: Shenmue actually means -- I always mess this up -- but Shenmue means basically spirit way or spirit tree. Shen roughly translates into energy, it depends on who you talk to. And Mue means 'The Way'. Both of those things basically fit well into our game. The name was kind of originally created in combination of Sega and AM2, but Sony is big on doing a bunch of focus grouping and all those sorts of things. Throw a bunch of names out, and ask "What do you like, what don't you like?" Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. What was important for us was that the name had some kind of meaning so we successfully retained the name "Shenmue" for the third entry.
How did the storyline involving Shenhua, the Chi You Men, and the two mirrors come about?
Suzuki: The storyline in Shenmue 3 actually involves an alternate universe in a way. We wanted the environments to be rural but yet Asian themed, and we didn't want it to be Hong Kong this time so we chose Guilin. So we kind of devised this alternate universe that our characters exist in. It's slightly in the recent past, and I think the 1980's provided a good launching point behind the ideas of some of our environments. And that is primarily what drove that storyline. The idea behind Shenhua, and what she represents, was kind of taken from events in China. In real history there were events in China at the turn of the century involving sort of a rebellious nature in terms of foreign elements that were influencing the direction that their country was taking. So we thought it would be an interesting spin to what would have happened if somebody, or some segment of the population, before that, had broke off and moved inland into the secluded area of Guilin? And then a lot of the other elements that were taken out of Chinese mythology, like the myth of the immortal who lives in the southern China who is protected by a guardian, that [is where we got] our heroine Shenhua. The boss that you fight is named Niao Sun, her master is a guy named Ten Tei. That's all kind of taken out of Chinese mythology. That has always played a big part in what influences me a lot, and has carried over to Shenmue 3
Given what you learned over the many years working on the Shenmue storyline, did you do anything different this time around with Shenmue 3?
Suzuki: What I tried with Shenmue 3 was that I didn't want any sort of end of the world kind of theme. In our story there is no 'the end of the world is at risk'. It is really just a young man's spiritual journey and how it fit within the mythological limits of the story. So where as with Gears of War it was about the fate of the world, that's not really what's at stake here. It's a little bit more personalized between each one of the characters. I think that's how the story of Shenmue 3 differs a lot.
Earlier this year at Monaco you guys showed off the Shenmue 3 environments. How was it for you to finally get to show the game off and gauge the reaction of the media and players who got to see it? And do you feel that you benefited from private showings of the game versus a big public showing of the incomplete game at E3?
Suzuki: Right, yea the game at the time was not ready to be shown on the floor of E3 this year. That decision was made by Sony and ourselves. Sony just wanted to show the game because they were happy with its progress, and it was fairly early in its development at the time. So, I don't know whether we benefited or not from it, but it just seemed like the right way to show the game in Monaco instead. It's always good to get feedback, especially from people who play games a lot.
How many characters are in the game, and approximately how many moves are there per character? What about unplayable characters?
Suzuki: There are 3 selectable characters from the outset: Ryo, Shenhua and Ren. Moves really vary between character,s but I'd say about a hundred, maybe a little bit more or a little bit less, per character, depends on how you do counting. There are many NPCs and an un-lockable character.
Shenmue 3 hit the Advanced Free Battle stretch goal and will now feature a limb damage system, how is Limb Damage inflicted upon a character? And how does it effect that character's abilities?
Suzuki: Limb damage is caused by two different ways. One is through excessive blocking, like if your opponent blocks too much it will advance his limb damage state. And there are two different limb damage states, there is Alert and there is Danger. And when you get in Danger, the next hit that lands successfully will inflict limb damage. If it is a high attack it will cause upper body limb damage and if it's an attack to the legs it will cause lower body limb damage. Obviously lower body limb damage will affect the opponent's ability to use any attacks that use kicks effectively and upper body affects punches. And it affects it by they will cause 50% less damage. Speed does not change other than if you are suffering leg limb damage walking, but not side stepping and things like that, but walking will be affected, like your guy kind of limps.
Could you explain the naming convention of the 4 Chi You Men bosses?
Suzuki: The influence in terms of the names that we used are a little bit based on the concept that preceding a name of a person or animal with a descriptive element will give that person luck or helps enhance their internal abilities. We do this with the bad guys, so there's Red Pheonix, Yellow Tiger, Black Turtle and Blue Dragon. The good guys practice what is called Nei Yeh which is their inner chi or inner power. And you have to build that through meditation and practice and it takes a long time to do it and requires a lot of skill. The bad guys practice what we called Wei Dan which is outer alchemy. They cheat, they have to take potions or youth-elixirs because they don't have the patience to practice and learn. That's kind of why the Chi You Men are all named very shallow. Not any real meaning other than bravado. But that is sort of what influenced the naming convention. We tried to inject a reason behind their names. When you hear the names at first they come across as a little bit strange, but when you read a lot of Chinese mythology a lot of the characters that exist within it are named real similar if not it gets even weirder. If you understand the roots behind it, it makes a lot of sense. I think that when you look at what we are trying to do in terms of mythological elements to the game, it makes sense. It's funny that if you watch a lot of Hong Kong cinema and you look at the names of some of the characters as they are translated, you will see a lot of similar names. Actually in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon there were a lot of characters that had a very similar name style.
What level of body scarring and clothing tearing does the fighting engine in Shenmue 3 support?
Suzuki: Obviously the entire bodies of the characters, every area of the body will show form of damage. It is dependant on how much damage is inflicted upon the opponent. One thing we wanted to do was if clearly you are winning a free battle, and clearly your opponent is losing, we wanted you to know who was winning or losing just by looking at the two characters visually instead of looking at the health bars. That was the original reason for doing character damage was for you to feel that you inflicted damage. I think one of the cool elements about Shenmue 3 is after you play it for awhile and then you play another game; you do miss not having it. It is just eye candy, it doesn't effect game play really at all, Limb Damage does, but the character damage like the cloth ripping and the bruising does not. But it's fun to see and I think it adds to the experience.
What level of interactivity do the environments in Shenmue 3 have?
Suzuki: We didn't reach the high ground battle stretch goal, but each environment is different; some have more hazards than others. Interactivity happens in a few different ways, one is through attacking off of objects and walls or swinging around poles. Different environments have varying amounts of poles in them. So, that's one way to interact with the environment is by using it to perform attacks off of. The other is by knocking your opponent into hazards. And actually that's the other way to advance your opponent's limb damage state. Knocking them into a hazard really doesn't cause any extra damage, but what it does do is advance your opponent's limb damage state. And there are different ways to knocking your opponent into hazards. That's primarily how the backgrounds function. As you play the game, it's important to get used to the layout of the particular environments and knowing where you are at during any point during a FREE battle or QTE.
What happened to the Magic Maze feature that was mentioned at last year's kickstarter... was it totally scrapped?
Suzuki: Initially with the game we were going to do seamless environmental transitions. Some of our environments are really big and now we are forced to have dividing points where you wait to load the next section of the level. As we developed the game we learned there was a trade off. Either we were going to have all this detail in the environments or have a streaming world. The magic maze stretch goal we felt really could have added to playing in the environment and made a character feel like he was really living in a world as opposed to just a series of loaded zones. And that was really important to us, and our ability to do that would kind of went away due to lack of funding. When it came time to make the tradeoff we decided that having the detailed environments were more important than transitioning between areas, which had been done before in Shenmue 1 and 2 anyway.
What is the new Chi meter and how is it utilized in the game?
Suzuki: The Chi meter is a little meter that exists under the health meter. As you fight and successfully land blows, you build your Chi. Once your Chi meter is full, you can use it to perform a Chi attack. Each character has three different kinds [of Chi attacks], and they do different things. So, you can use your Chi to perform a Chi attack or to heal limb damage if you want. Healing yourself depends on where you're at in the match, depends on your comfort level in terms of who you are fighting. You may feel that the guy you're fighting is such a scrub that you're fine with the Limb Damage and decide that you'd rather do the Chi Attack to cause more health damage. It kind of injects another element of strategy to the game.
Explain the game's combo system. Is it a primarily button queuing rhythmic system like Killer Instinct or is there also a juggle aspect to the combo system? And is there a training mode to help your learn the combos?
Suzuki: We have a little of both. We have longer form combos that are "Killer Insinct"-ish and then also have methods of popping your opponent up in the air to create little combos that way. In terms of performing the longer form combos, a lot of it is queuing and some of it does involve more of a timing aspect. It really depends on the character or combo. Training mode is good for learning what queues and what involves timing.
Do you guys feel that you pushed the limits of the PS4 hardware, or do you think that there is still much you guys have to learn about the graphics power of the PS4?
Suzuki: I think looking at Shenmue 3, if we lagged in anything I think it would be our animation system. We are still investigating that. In terms of our lighting scheme and shadows and polygonal make up of our characters I think we are pushing the PS4 pretty good. Our characters are composed of 10-15 thousand polygons each and we try to do things like� we wanted the player to look at the characters and not see boxy edges or pinches when joints would flex. That was important to us, we wanted our characters to look as real a possible and I think we did that fairly well. I think in terms of our lighting there were probably things to improve, but I felt we did a pretty good job of putting the characters within the environments and how we lit them. We're pretty satisfied with that. I think it looks great, I think there are things that look really good about it and there are areas of improvement. This being our first game away from Sega. This is our first time working with Unreal 4 and there is a lot of work left for us to do, but we're happy with it.
Who did the music for Shenmue 3? And what type of mood music wise were you guys going for?
Suzuki: The music was composed by a guy named Ryuji Luchi. What we wanted from the music in Shenmue 3 was that we didn't want to over do it. We wanted the music to exist in the background and have more ambient noises come across. And so the music we wanted to really exist but not overwhelm the player. We think Ryuji did a good job of that. There is a lot of Chinese influence to some of the tunes, and if you listen to the music that he puts together outside of what he did for our game I think it is a good fit for Shenmue 3. I think some of it is more subdued than I think you are used to hearing in Shenmue 1 or 2. But like I said, our goal was to have it exist in the background. One thing that we actually do that is pretty cool in our game is that we are really conscience of the sounds of the environment and if you turn down the music and just listen to the ambient environmental sounds that are in the game, it's pretty cool. Especially if you have a 3D surround system you can hear if there is a fountain in back of you, the water going off in it, and all the sounds of the environment that really help put you there.
Does Shenmue 3 support any of the specialized audio features as far as Digital Surround Sound and/or custom soundtracks?
Suzuki: It does do 5.1 [Dolby Digital Surround Sound], but does not support custom soundtracks. The 5.1 is what I was talking about with the ambient environmental sounds. The depressing thing is that most games if you turn off the music there is nothing, there are no sounds other than footsteps and the fight sounds. So we thought having that was kind of cool, and then you can mix your music level with the ambient environmental sounds.
Looking forward, what do you see YsNet going in the future?
Suzuki: I don't know, as I mentioned before we are kind of in a transitional period. I think that we, at some point, would like to expand as a developer, multiplatform development is something we want to investigate. Because of our size we want to do that slowly. We're a group of 25 guys and I think that that's barely enough to do one project now a days. We've looked and talked to other developers who have been in the industry for a long time developing independently, and are trying to really be careful with the decisions that we make. So in terms of our future, we'd at some point like to expand in terms of our size. We just want to do that in a real methodical way.
Do you think your next game will be a sequel to Shenmue 3 or another game in a different genre?
Suzuki: It could be a Shenmue 4. I think that we're actually working on it already. We would like to investigate other genres. Obviously, all of us have other ideas for other games we'd like to investigate. Our ability to do that is dependant on our ability to start another project. And I think that's one of my reasons for not necessarily leaving Sega but one of my reasons of wanting to start up an actual company is at some point, create and own the intellectual property that comes from us. That's a difficult thing to do because of the structure that developer/publisher relations take. But at some point in the future, I don't know whether it's four or eight years in the future or what. But at some point we would like to be able to do that, and I think that is our ultimate goal as a developer.
We would like to thank Yu Suzuki and the entire development team at YsNet for their hospitality during our visit.