Random Shenmue III Thoughts

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby south carmain » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:42 am

ShenGCH wrote:
south carmain wrote: Are 3d modellers told enough about the plot to have it significantly spoiled?

I'm not a 3D modeller, so I can only speculate and say it depends: if a 3D modeller is tasked with modelling, for example, damage/fresh scarring on a character, that would be quite spoiler-ish as context is likely to be part of the design document; if they're tasked with modelling certain story-related, important items, that would be quite spoiler-ish, too; and the same could certainly be said for locations (particularly interiors) and more, too.

I assumed they would be given concept art and if really needed a brief explanation of the scene but as little as possible to prevent any significant leaks on the project. Maybe I'm overthinking things though and non-disclosure agreements are usually enough to detract workers from being tempted by such things.
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby elfshadowreaper » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:02 am

Chaikilla wrote:I'm glad somebody else is interested in the mystery surrounding Chai's character. The manual for the original Shenmue (and I'm paraphrasing from off the top of my head) says "who knows how he came to be" and his age is unknown. Pretty much everything about him is unknown, including whether or not he was acting independently during the time he stalked Ryo in Yokosuka or if he was instructed to do so. He's the only antagonist (that we know of) who knows that Ryo has the Phoenix mirror and his whereabouts during the events of Shenmue 2 were a mystery. The thought of him stalking Ryo off-screen during this time sends shivers down my spine :mrgreen: but that's what seems the most likely.

Who the hell is Chai? Where has he been since getting kicked into the middle of the ocean the night before Ryo landed in Hong Kong? What exactly are his connections to Lan Di? Has he revealed to anybody that Ryo has the other mirror? What is the explanation for his superhuman agility and reflexes? I really hope we find out more about him and he doesn't just make a short cameo for the sake of fanservice.


I'm definitely starting to think Chai will keep popping up until the end of the game. I could see a scenario playing out where Ryo confronts Lan Di, Lan Di has a change of heart and Chai, watching from the shadows, grabs the mirrors and resurrects Chiyou(whatever that actually does). Chai could be devoted more to Sunming Zhoa and only follows Lan Di because Lan Di is Zhoa's son. So when Lan Di fails to resurrect Chiyou, Chai sees it as his responsibility to do it for Zhoa.

I think we all assumed Ryo is holding Ren in that postmortem art we saw a few years ago. But could it be Lan Di?
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby Mr357 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:26 pm

elfshadowreaper wrote:I think we all assumed Ryo is holding Ren in that postmortem art we saw a few years ago. But could it be Lan Di?


Ren is a good guess, but I think if anyone will die it'll be
Xiuying.
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:52 pm

Mr357 wrote:
elfshadowreaper wrote:I think we all assumed Ryo is holding Ren in that postmortem art we saw a few years ago. But could it be Lan Di?


Ren is a good guess, but I think if anyone will die it'll be
Xiuying.


Ha, she's a tough lady so it'd be very difficult for someone to take her out. You sure about that?
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby ShenGCH » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:37 pm

Mr357 wrote:
elfshadowreaper wrote:I think we all assumed Ryo is holding Ren in that postmortem art we saw a few years ago. But could it be Lan Di?

Ren is a good guess, but I think if anyone will die it'll be
Xiuying.

If Xiuying dies, which would be most fitting after being reunited with Ziming, I can imagine the latter being sent over the edge, turning his back on the Chi You Men; if Ziming dies, of course after being reunited with Xiuying, I can imagine the latter going nuclear. I wouldn't be surprised if Niao Sun was responsible for either case. It's something she would enjoy to no end.

Either way, the fallout would make for some very interesting developments indeed.

Looking again at the concept art 'cards' from the postmortem, there is absolutely no doubt Ren is the one in Ryo's arms in the second-to-last image. It's him 100%.
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby darksniper » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:16 pm

Logically it would make sense if it was Ren. But something tells me that it could be Lan Di. I think it's possible that Lan Di may end up being an ally to Ryo at some point in the future. There's definitely a reason why the game is pushing a strong message to forgive him during Shenmue II
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby OL » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:53 pm

Shenmue_Legend wrote:You sure about that?


I'm pretty sure no one is sure about anything.
Being that it's all conjecture.

Anyway, you're all assuming that the person in his arms is dead.
What if they just got married? Ryo might just be carrying his bride across the threshold into their new home.
Also it's not Ryo, it's Akira. So a lot may have changed since 1996 regardless.
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:02 am

OL wrote:
Shenmue_Legend wrote:You sure about that?


I'm pretty sure no one is sure about anything.
Being that it's all conjecture.

Anyway, you're all assuming that the person in his arms is dead.
What if they just got married? Ryo might just be carrying his bride across the threshold into their new home.
Also it's not Ryo, it's Akira. So a lot may have changed since 1996 regardless.


I know. I was kidding!
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby ShenGCH » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:46 am

darksniper wrote: Logically it would make sense if it was Ren. But something tells me that it could be Lan Di. I think it's possible that Lan Di may end up being an ally to Ryo at some point in the future. There's definitely a reason why the game is pushing a strong message to forgive him during Shenmue II

Using the concept art cards as a reference, take a look at Ren in the third-to-last card and then compare it with the person Ryo is carrying in his arms in the second-to-last card; same garment (complete with white cuffs), same trousers, and same boots. The only thing missing is Ren's do-rag, which was presumably lost in the fight preceding his death.

It's Ren.
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby KidMarine » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:22 am

Yeah, the scoundrel turned good guy who sacrifices himself is a common trope. It was supposed to happen to Han Solo in Return of the Jedi before Lucas chickened out.

Also, I assume that
after Ren dies, Ryo uses his do-rag as a bandana like Akira from Virtua Fighter, as a tribute.
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby elfshadowreaper » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:57 am

I’d kill for high quality versions of those cards. That would help so much. But I agree now, it is Ren at the next to last card. With Lan Di’s eye at the top.

I wonder the chance of the final chapter of the last game being anticlimactic. I thought the Guilin part of Shenmue 2 was anticlimactic after finally seeing Lan Di. I’m not saying that in a negative way though. But to me the game’s climax is clearly the rooftop fight with Dou Niu. But I wonder if the last chapter will just be Ryo and Shenhua’s journey back.

I remember thinking the rooftop fight was the end of Shenmue 2. But I was surprised when the game kept going.
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby shenmue852 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:22 pm

Ren either sacrifices himself or betrays Ryo in a way that he's forced to kill him.

I kind of think that with Yu Suzuki's statements about Ryo not being driven by revenge later in the story, and how much the theme of the games themselves seems against the idea of Ryo killing Lan Di to avenge his father, that Ryo will defeat Lan Di and stop his Chi You plot without killing him, and soon afterwards there's a twist where Ren betrays and ambushes him and Ryo is forced to counter in a way that's fatal, despite not having wanted to kill, and this has a deep effect on him afterwards. Ryo has never killed, is probably unlikely to kill anyone in Shenmue III, and I think there's strong indications that he won't deliberately kill Lan Di, so it would be a pretty strong twist.

One of the biggest reasons I think this is the case is because in the final chapter card, Ryo wanders off into the desert in Northwest China, presumably leaving Shenhua and Xiuying behind. To me that suggests a kind of bittersweet or not entirely happy ending.

Before I saw the chapter cards I kind of assumed the final chapter would end with Ryo returning to Yokosuka and taking over the Hazuki dojo, and that all the good guys back in Hong Kong and China also lives happily ever after, but I guess the story is more complex and interesting than a standard RPG.

ShenGCH wrote:
Mr357 wrote:
elfshadowreaper wrote:I think we all assumed Ryo is holding Ren in that postmortem art we saw a few years ago. But could it be Lan Di?

Ren is a good guess, but I think if anyone will die it'll be
Xiuying.

If Xiuying dies, which would be most fitting after being reunited with Ziming, I can imagine the latter being sent over the edge, turning his back on the Chi You Men; if Ziming dies, of course after being reunited with Xiuying, I can imagine the latter going nuclear. I wouldn't be surprised if Niao Sun was responsible for either case. It's something she would enjoy to no end.

Either way, the fallout would make for some very interesting developments indeed.

Looking again at the concept art 'cards' from the postmortem, there is absolutely no doubt Ren is the one in Ryo's arms in the second-to-last image. It's him 100%.


Xiuying is alive in the final chapter card. It's not proof that she's alive at the end of the story, but there's certainly nothing to suggest that she dies either. Whereas with Ren it's more than suggested that he dies, and that Ryo wears his bandana as a headband afterwards.

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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby ShenGCH » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:52 am

shenmue852 wrote:Ren either sacrifices himself or betrays Ryo in a way that he's forced to kill him.

I kind of think that with Yu Suzuki's statements about Ryo not being driven by revenge later in the story, and how much the theme of the games themselves seems against the idea of Ryo killing Lan Di to avenge his father, that Ryo will defeat Lan Di and stop his Chi You plot without killing him, and soon afterwards there's a twist where Ren betrays and ambushes him and Ryo is forced to counter in a way that's fatal, despite not having wanted to kill, and this has a deep effect on him afterwards. Ryo has never killed, is probably unlikely to kill anyone in Shenmue III, and I think there's strong indications that he won't deliberately kill Lan Di, so it would be a pretty strong twist.

One of the biggest reasons I think this is the case is because in the final chapter card, Ryo wanders off into the desert in Northwest China, presumably leaving Shenhua and Xiuying behind. To me that suggests a kind of bittersweet or not entirely happy ending.

Before I saw the chapter cards I kind of assumed the final chapter would end with Ryo returning to Yokosuka and taking over the Hazuki dojo, and that all the good guys back in Hong Kong and China also lives happily ever after, but I guess the story is more complex and interesting than a standard RPG.

Ren may be driven by material greed, but would he really be so petty as to betray Ryo for whatever 'reward' is up for grabs, even after everything they've been through? I wouldn't be surprised if Ren even considered Ryo a friend after their ordeal; the latter having proven himself as being much more than the "stupid kid" he was originally viewed as. Is Ren even that skilled of a fighter either? He's a scrapper, that's for sure, but going up against Ryo? He'd be stupid for even trying, especially after the amount of skill and knowledge Ryo would have gained by that point in the story.

Ren sacrificing himself seems the more likely scenario, but perhaps I'm being too optimistic and the dude really is just a black-and-white scumbag.

shenmue852 wrote:Xiuying is alive in the final chapter card. It's not proof that she's alive at the end of the story, but there's certainly nothing to suggest that she dies either. Whereas with Ren it's more than suggested that he dies, and that Ryo wears his bandana as a headband afterwards.

Ah, of course; Xiuying's right there in the last card. Stupid me. Nice catch regarding Ryo wearing Ren's do-rag as a bandanna, too, though I'm a little sceptical that he would be wearing it so soon after Ren's death. Had he been wearing it in the final card alone, I would be 100% convinced, but perhaps their intention was to highlight, and be somewhat poetic about, it. You're good at this :)
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby Henry Spencer » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:09 pm

OL wrote: I tend to stay out of the Shenmue areas of the forums for the most part, so excuse me if this gets talked about much.
But random thought: I really hope SIII maintains the replayability of the previous two games. I was thinking about it, and the first two have a very unique style of progression, where being at this place at this time will trigger a unique event, and there's absolutely no hints or indicators signalling exactly where and when they're placed. It all just happens organically, and as you play the game subsequent times you discover new little tidbits here and there, with no reward other than the experience of finding them. And yet, missing these scenes and then hearing about them later from others never makes it feel like you screwed up; it just gives you a little urge to try and see them next time. You're practically guaranteed not to see everything the first time through, and yet no playthrough of either game ever feels "incomplete."
Most games nowadays have absolutely nothing like that. Not that I can think of at least. Games nowadays tend to point you directly toward any additional scenes or events that might happen. And if they don't, then people label the un-marked events as easter eggs. By that logic, Shenmue and Shenmue II were just littered to the brim with "easter eggs," but never acted like they were anything super secret; they were just extensions of how lively the game world was.
I really hope Shenmue III follows through in the exact same way. I don't want any glowing indicators on a world map telling me where everything is; I want to stumble across it all myself, or hear about things on the forum here. I think "modernizing" the game too much with things like that would absolutely kill some of the appeal of subsequent replays.


And that is why Shenmue 1 and 2 are some of my favourite games ever made. Best sandbox games I've played. As dense as it gets. Still discover new things even now so many years later (through dialogue or NPCs I didn't know even existed). I sure won't be spoiling how to approach any of the potential scenarios. The new system where you can interact with the likes of Ren and Shenhua sounds promising in that respect.

My random thought: Has the notebook been confirmed as coming back for III?
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Re: Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Postby KidMarine » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Henry Spencer wrote:My random thought: Has the notebook been confirmed as coming back for III?

Yes, you can definitely see it in one of the dev room videos.

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