Size and detail of the world

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Size and detail of the world

Postby Centrale » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:28 pm

I recall some discussions about the size of the world in Shenmue III... with Yu Suzuki's comment in that regard being that it will be similar to Dobuita in Shenmue I. Initially I was a little disappointed with that scale, but after re-playing it a bit I can acknowledge that there's still quite a lot to do and explore within that space. Having played most of the Yakuza games, I enjoy the density of detail in those fairly small cities - but I also appreciate the different kind of appeal of the huge, yet mostly empty, worlds of GTA.

I came across this article today that shows a map of another long-anticipated game, The Last Guardian, that fans have put together. I haven't played it, but apparently this shows all of the game world in a single view - so, spoiler alert if you haven't played it yet and intend to! Here's the link to the article, and you have to click through to see the map with annotations. But I thought it was an interesting visualization because it looks like a relatively small space that's mostly vertically-oriented, with each area offering various challenges. It's hard to gauge the scale and definitely hard to imagine the feeling of immersion from looking at a single image, but I still think it's interesting. And it's also heartening that, from what I've heard, The Last Guardian has been pretty well-received and I haven't heard complaints about it being too small or too brief of an experience. Anyone who's played The Last Guardian - what do you think of this visualization in relation to your experience of playing it?

Another game that comes to mind that has a satisfying game world that is not necessarily gigantic, but is quite beautiful, is Firewatch. My hope for Shenmue III would be that there are two or three densely detailed cities/villages, but also some sizeable wilderness areas that could probably be partially procedurally generated and will be cool to just wander around in a bit.

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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby KidMarine » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:10 pm

I recall a year or so ago Suzuki compared Choubu in scale to Kowloon, and this is a while after he compared it to Dobuita, so I guess he may have changed the size of it. Perhaps after it made $6 million instead of $2 million? We also know that the forest around Bailu is going to be 4x4 km.

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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby Hazuki00 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:38 pm

Based on the last new regarding this, I think Shenmue 3 could be between Shenmue and Shenmue 2 in size.
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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby Anonymous81 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:27 am

Yeah after his later comments, I suspect the game will be around the size of the entirety of Shenmue 1, or somewhere between it and Shenmue 2, but almost certainly nowhere near as massive as Shenmue 2 was.

The thing is, Shenmue 1 felt "large" because of its intricate detail and narrow streets and houses and shops. Shenmue 2 felt large because it was simply massive, in addition to also retaining all that detail and narrow streets and things to see and do.

Shenmue 3 is a slightly different animal imo, because the areas are likely to need to be more open and less confined just based on the nature of the locations, with some exceptions. So I think it's likely to feel "larger" in the sense that it will be a tad more open, but may also risk feeling "smaller" due to not having to navigate narrow streets and so forth. It will be a considerably less urban game, from my understanding (again, with some exceptions.)

So with all that said, I suspect that while a bit larger than Shenmue1, it will "feel" about the size of Shenmue 1 due to its more open and less urban, confined nature. But then you have to add in the slow pace, and all the intricate detail and up close interactivity the series is known for. If they nail that, it will feel larger still, because that inflates the sense of scale and the illusion of being in a real, living world.

To me Shenmue has always been less about absolute scale, and more about depth of detail and content, and time sinks (usually a frowned upon thing but in this case a good thing imo) making it feel longer and more substantive than it would otherwise.

In short, I'm not worried.
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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby Sonoshee » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:14 am

I honestly believe it will be larger in scale than Yu originally envisioned (we already know the forest will be bigger for one thing).

Since the Kickstarter ended he spoke about how impressed he was with the Unreal Engine.

I think he was possibly running off the assumption that the team would have to build everything from the ground up like what happened with Shenmue when it was originally made; not taking into account how much easier development is now with engines like UE.

Also, don't forget that Yu did say Shenmue 3 "expands inward, not outward" (or words to those effect) so it was always going to be smaller in scale than Shenmue 2. It's a more intimate game than the second.

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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby south carmain » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:49 am

KidMarine wrote:We also know that the forest around Bailu is going to be 4x4 km.

I missed that, man walking around Guilin was my favourite part of shenmue 2 I can't wait to explore it as an open world in shenmue 3.
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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby johnvivant » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:57 am

for Shenmue, its detail over size every time, imo.
large yet vacant/ bland open worlds are super boring and soulless. detail and size is always a compromise.

hopefully we will see a the return of proper NPC routines, at least in the smaller population towns.
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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby Testament » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:41 pm

Centrale wrote: I recall some discussions about the size of the world in Shenmue III... with Yu Suzuki's comment in that regard being that it will be similar to Dobuita in Shenmue I. Initially I was a little disappointed with that scale, but after re-playing it a bit I can acknowledge that there's still quite a lot to do and explore within that space. Having played most of the Yakuza games, I enjoy the density of detail in those fairly small cities - but I also appreciate the different kind of appeal of the huge, yet mostly empty, worlds of GTA.

I came across this article today that shows a map of another long-anticipated game, The Last Guardian, that fans have put together. I haven't played it, but apparently this shows all of the game world in a single view - so, spoiler alert if you haven't played it yet and intend to! Here's the link to the article, and you have to click through to see the map with annotations. But I thought it was an interesting visualization because it looks like a relatively small space that's mostly vertically-oriented, with each area offering various challenges. It's hard to gauge the scale and definitely hard to imagine the feeling of immersion from looking at a single image, but I still think it's interesting. And it's also heartening that, from what I've heard, The Last Guardian has been pretty well-received and I haven't heard complaints about it being too small or too brief of an experience. Anyone who's played The Last Guardian - what do you think of this visualization in relation to your experience of playing it?

Another game that comes to mind that has a satisfying game world that is not necessarily gigantic, but is quite beautiful, is Firewatch. My hope for Shenmue III would be that there are two or three densely detailed cities/villages, but also some sizeable wilderness areas that could probably be partially procedurally generated and will be cool to just wander around in a bit.


I'm near the end of the Last Guardian. What a fantastic, artistic game.

I never would have believed you if you told me the map was that size. The game is huge. Everything in the world looks and feels huge. They did a fantastic job of conveying that.
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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby Rikitatsu » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:39 pm

KidMarine wrote: I recall a year or so ago Suzuki compared Choubu in scale to Kowloon, and this is a while after he compared it to Dobuita, so I guess he may have changed the size of it. Perhaps after it made $6 million instead of $2 million? We also know that the forest around Bailu is going to be 4x4 km.

I think the Kowloon comparison wasn't about the size, but more about the density and general aesthetics.
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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby KidMarine » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:05 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:
KidMarine wrote: I recall a year or so ago Suzuki compared Choubu in scale to Kowloon, and this is a while after he compared it to Dobuita, so I guess he may have changed the size of it. Perhaps after it made $6 million instead of $2 million? We also know that the forest around Bailu is going to be 4x4 km.

I think the Kowloon comparison wasn't about the size, but more about the density and general aesthetics.

I can't find the link, but I'm 99% sure it was in reference to "scale".

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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby Telekill » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:25 pm

I'm in the middle of playing the Last Guardian now and while the game sometimes feels like a ported PS2 game via controls, animations and camera, I don't hold that against the game at all. Sure, the graphics aren't PS4 spectacular like Uncharted 4 or Rise of the Tomb Raider, but I take it as an art style. Sort of like the new Zelda: Breath of the Wild looks to have cell shading vs. high end realistic texturing. I'm having fun with the long awaited game and adventuring with my bird dog. That's what matters. Also, for an idea of a small space but a vast world, one of the trophies for Last Guardian is to beat the game in 30 hours or less. That's separate from simply beating the game.

I would imagine that Shenmue 3 will be a similar experience. At the very least, a similar experience to the first two games; the more time you put into the game, the more you'll get out of it. I'm anticipating that after 15 years of waiting, just continuing the story will be awesome enough to forgive any shortcomings that the "size" of the world could show.
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Re: Size and detail of the world

Postby Switch » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:40 pm

KidMarine wrote:
Rikitatsu wrote:
KidMarine wrote: I recall a year or so ago Suzuki compared Choubu in scale to Kowloon, and this is a while after he compared it to Dobuita, so I guess he may have changed the size of it. Perhaps after it made $6 million instead of $2 million? We also know that the forest around Bailu is going to be 4x4 km.

I think the Kowloon comparison wasn't about the size, but more about the density and general aesthetics.

I can't find the link, but I'm 99% sure it was in reference to "scale".


Yu refers to Kowloon in the China conference video:

YS: "In Shenmue 2 we had Kowloon. [...] I'd like to make an area like that, that's large and maze-like. I want to include a river-side town similar to Kowloon."

phpBB [video]

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