Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Yokosuka » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:58 am

If indeed Ryo's model has changed, it would be more worrying than reassuring as it implies that the development is not progressing as it should.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Kiske » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:19 pm

Yokosuka wrote: If indeed Ryo's model has changed, it would be more worrying than reassuring as it implies that the development is not progressing as it should.


In any event, it would be kind of naive not to expect some bumps on the road.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Let's Get Sweaty » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:00 pm

Yokosuka wrote: If indeed Ryo's model has changed, it would be more worrying than reassuring as it implies that the development is not progressing as it should.


How?
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Jibby » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:09 pm

Yokosuka wrote: If indeed Ryo's model has changed, it would be more worrying than reassuring as it implies that the development is not progressing as it should.

I'm a bit unclear how you come to this conclusion. Could you elaborate for me?
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Spaghetti » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:21 pm

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote:Lip sync, facial expressions and animations are most likely being done by another team and not in the main code yet so they are still running with templates.

Sort of yes, sort of no. It's not so much they're being worked on independently, but animation finalisation should come after the content of a quest (like the one we saw being tested) is locked down; otherwise if something has to change, the animator's work is possibly wasted or requires redoing certain sections.

Yokosuka wrote: If indeed Ryo's model has changed, it would be more worrying than reassuring as it implies that the development is not progressing as it should.

Why? Pretty much all the changes are definite improvements in terms of graphical fidelity and aesthetic, and they're still not done yet. Seems like they're going in the right direction to me.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Yokosuka » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:54 pm

Jibby wrote:
Yokosuka wrote: If indeed Ryo's model has changed, it would be more worrying than reassuring as it implies that the development is not progressing as it should.

I'm a bit unclear how you come to this conclusion. Could you elaborate for me?


Unclarity, that's the problem here. Either they continue their testing phase while they left the artist team working quietly alone, or they update more or less regularly their builds with the last charadesign/clothing models available. A bit of both? Makes no sense imo or the production may be less structured than I was thinking.

If they opted for the second procedure, I cannot hide my disappointment here. Regarding a "A rank" character, I was expecting better after one and a half year of development. So I will persist to think these changes are only the consequence of opportunities inside the studio, with YSnet continuing to hide the true updated models from us.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Peter » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:36 pm

Can't half tell you're French.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Jibby » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:54 pm

Yokosuka wrote:Unclarity, that's the problem here. Either they continue their testing phase while they left the artist team working quietly alone, or they update more or less regularly their builds with the last charadesign/clothing models available. A bit of both? Makes no sense imo or the production may be less structured than I was thinking.

If they opted for the second procedure, I cannot hide my disappointment here. Regarding a "A rank" character, I was expecting better after one and a half year of development. So I will persist to think these changes are only the consequence of opportunities inside the studio, with YSnet continuing to hide the true updated models from us.

Thank you! I see what you are trying to say now, but I don't think there's grounds to worry. I feel they probably want to show the latest version of Ryo in the update videos, even if he isn't quite ready yet.

At this stage in development, I think they would be focusing on getting the world built and the main events scripted and focusing less manpower on stuff like the models. They're not important in the development and testing environment.
But even if development isn't as far along as we think, the worst that will happen is that the game will be delayed; something a lot of people seem to expect anyway. My only concern is good looking characters in promotional material such as trailers and gameplay demos, but I'm probably worrying over nothing as I'm sure they'll sort something out specifically for that if they haven't already.

Yu cares far too much to let anything subpar reach the final game. I recently watched that making of Shenmue documentary again after it was re-posted here and there was entire meetings for how the flames in a campfire looked. I'm confident that we'll see some fantastic models soon and that Shenmue III will look amazing.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:37 pm

Jibby wrote:At this stage in development, I think they would be focusing on getting the world built and the main events scripted and focusing less manpower on stuff like the models. They're not important in the development and testing environment.
But even if development isn't as far along as we think, the worst that will happen is that the game will be delayed; something a lot of people seem to expect anyway. My only concern is good looking characters in promotional material such as trailers and gameplay demos, but I'm probably worrying over nothing as I'm sure they'll sort something out specifically for that if they haven't already.

Yu cares far too much to let anything subpar reach the final game. I recently watched that making of Shenmue documentary again after it was re-posted here and there was entire meetings for how the flames in a campfire looked. I'm confident that we'll see some fantastic models soon and that Shenmue III will look amazing.


That's possible when you have a giant team behind you, it's unrealistic to expect Shenmue III to have the same premium feel the first two games had. Concerning development, despite the low budget I think they must have a team responsible for 3D character models and other doing background.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Spaghetti » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:53 pm

I only know as much about game development as I've been able to read on the internet, and I don't know specifically how YSnet works in any case, but it seems the typical development timeline only really has graphics being paid attention to once a title reaches full production. If you'll all remember from the end of last year, we're basically only a few months into that process with Shenmue III.

Similarly, I don't think new assets are continually being funneled into the game seeing how they're still using Shenmue II placeholders in some cases still. We may be anywhere between 3-4+ months (at least) removed from the last time they updated the art assets, seeing how the Ryo model looks like the one seen in the December 2016 screens.

Games are never really asset complete until the software reaches Beta, which is typically 2-3 months before release depending on size and complexity. We don't know if Shenmue III is even at Alpha, or even First Playable yet, although in either case December 2017 is probably not going to happen.

For all we know, the updated Ryo model may be the art team's own "prototype". I know some of you aren't seeing them, but I recognised a lot of technical improvements across the board being applied to his model, from texturing, shaders, specular maps, a boost in detail (possibly poly count too?), and reaction to light sources.

Maybe the reason why details like patch placement are wrong is because that wasn't the focus of the model? This Ryo could just be a Frankenstein's monster of tests from the art team on working towards final graphical quality. We'll never really know. Game design is iterative on all levels as far as I can tell, though. You can't just rush to the finish line in any aspect, it's a long, winding road with a few branches and dead ends. If it were that easy, games wouldn't take years at a time to make.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Hazuki00 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:48 pm

Maybe you guys are forgetting that only one person did an excellent job making Ryo in a short period of time. This person is nokon kids and he is now working with Suzuki team, can you imagine what they can do all together? How couldn't they do a good job with more people,knowledge and budget? No way! I am too confident in this team, they'll blow everybody away when they show their first trailer for sure.

Be patient and trust in Yu.

They only show us dated material, Suzuki has always been very secretive with his work.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby KidMarine » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:49 pm

Hazuki00 wrote: Maybe you guys are forgetting that only one person did an excellent job making Ryo in a short period of time. This person is nokon kids and he is now working with Suzuki team, can you imagine what they can do all together? How couldn't they do a good job with more people,knowledge and budget? No way! I am too confident in this team, they'll blow everybody away when they show their first trailer for sure.

Be patient and trust in Yu.

They only show us dated material, Suzuki has always been very secretive with his work.

Didn't Nocon Kid just use Passport Ryo?
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Spaghetti » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:26 pm

KidMarine wrote:Didn't Nocon Kid just use Passport Ryo?

Yeah, or at least his own tweaked version of it. Kid Nocon's talents seem more geared towards environmental/architectural art anyway, IMO.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Sappharad » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:22 pm

Himuro wrote: Ryo's jacket looks so much better now. The patch actually looks like a jacket patch now for instance. Can't wait to see this games final version.

I agree about the jacket looking better, but it's still the wrong color. The original was dark brown leather, this one looks more like a tan color. If you search google images for "dark brown leather jacket" plenty of the results are real leather in colors that more closely match the original.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #65: Dev room update

Postby Spaghetti » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:30 pm

Huh. The colour looks accurate to me.

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