Who needs Shenmue 3?

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Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby iyapol » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:20 am

A nice and well written article on US Gamer. Don't be deceived by the title - the writer praises Shenmue for laying the foundations for the Yakuza series.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/who-needs-shenmue-3-when-you-have-yakuza-kiwami
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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Kiske » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:01 am

Yeah. Well. He praises Shenmue for existing but his conclusion remains that in his opinion, Yakuza is more enjoyable than Shenmue will ever possibly be. I disagree with the idea that Yakuza and Shenmue must be compared in a "fun-factor-meter" since they are different enough to be enjoyed both as different experiences.

You can love both Series for different reasons. I don't see the need to decide which one is better.

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:04 am

Kiske wrote:You can love both Series for different reasons. I don't see the need to decide which one is better.

Ding ding ding. I'm glad it wasn't just an article that went in to trash Shenmue, but the concept it operates on is flimsy.

Who wants Shenmue III? The fans. Do the fans know about Yakuza? Yes, probably. Some (like me) might even like it.

So why don't the fans just want Yakuza instead? Because it's not the same. They were never the same.

The article acknowledges as much, but can't seem to grasp the idea of preferring Shenmue, or god forbid enjoy both for different reasons. Enjoyment is not one-size-fits-all.

I'm wondering if the author played Shenmue II at all? All the references to the series are based on the original game.

Ultimately the article is inoffensive, and really more just gushing about Yakuza (which is fine, because the series deserves it), but doesn't look past Shenmue's technical achievements for the reasons why the fans stuck with the series so strongly during a 15 year hiatus, nor does it really answer the question posed in the article title (though I suspect that's more to do with trying to get eyes on the piece than anything).

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby sand4fish » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:14 am

I guess the comparison between the two games will always come up again and again as seen through the numerous topic threads in this forum about it. And again I will say this: when you evaluate player's in-game progress when playing both series, you will realize they ultimately belong to different genres. Shenmue's world is more detailed than even Yakuza's latest entry (as admitted by the author's article) for a real specific reason, and not simply a matter of aesthetics and budget constraint.

There's nothing wrong with preferring one over another imo, but acknowledge that they are indeed different games as stated by the comments above. When you look past the Sega logo and the Asian setting, you will see they are not a substitute for each other, hopefully.

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby mjq jazz bar » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:31 am

[360tag][/360tag]When I finally play Shenmue III, I'll see how I feel about comparing the two series. I enjoyed Shenmue 1 and 2 much more than I enjoyed the first two Yakuzas, even if the Yakuza games are more "fun." They're completely different experiences. Sega has also been able to give Yakuza millions of dollars and many iterations to get its formula where it is today.

I would like to see how well Yu Suzuki transitions into modern game design, however. It's been many, many years since Shenmue II, and hopefully he's learned some lessons since then. I'm not about to give Ys Net a pass if they release an archaic game that's grounded in game design that hasn't evolved since 2000, but I think Yu Suzuki knows what he's doing. The changes between the first two games show they were always looking for ways to improve upon the formula.
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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Rikitatsu » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:49 am

I'm getting tired of the Yakuza fanbase putting down Shenmue in order to promote the series.

I just finished Yakuza 0, great game, the best since 3, but it's a completely different experience from Shenmue. It's not even comparable. How can a realistic action adventure game where you spend most of the time doing detective work, be compared to an over the top action RPG/brawler, where you spend most of the time beating up hordes of goons. Not one second when I played Yakuza 0 was I even reminded of Shenmue.

Like, seriously how can you play Yakuza and think 'this is shenmue'... So dumb and superficial.

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby mjq jazz bar » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:00 pm

It's because they both have mini games and involve your character walking around a big, "realistic" city. I don't think it's that ridiculous, but their aims and execution are completely different.
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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Rikitatsu » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:20 pm

mjq jazz bar wrote: It's because they both have mini games and involve your character walking around a big, "realistic" city. I don't think it's that ridiculous

It IS very ridiculous. Don't you think it's a superficial comparison?

They are vastly different in mechanics, aesthetics, tone, storytelling, etc... ? But somehow it's comparable because you control an asian dude and walk around doing mini-games in a small Japanese town/district.

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby sand4fish » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:30 pm

At this point we might as well call Sleeping Dogs a successor to Shenmue too, and any future Asian city themed free roaming game for that matter.
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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:53 pm

sand4fish wrote: At this point we might as well call Sleeping Dogs a successor to Shenmue too, and any future Asian city themed free roaming game for that matter.

There are some people that actually tried to do that. No joke.

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Let's Get Sweaty » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:28 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:Don't you think it's a superficial comparison?


No.

Explore realistic Japanese town, engage in fenced-in fisticuffs against single or multiple enemies, learn new moves, enter shops to buy items, play games in arcades, engage in a range of tasks for the locals, seek out the truth behind a violent, sinister plot that's dragged you in against your will and threatens to hurt more of the people you care about.

Shenmue and Yakuza have many differences that make any talk of succession redundant. But to overlook their many similarities seems to require a blind spot the size of Mount Fuji.
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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby mjq jazz bar » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Also developed by the same company (well, different teams), published by the same company, and Yakuza is directed by someone who was part of AM2 at one point.
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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby sand4fish » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:21 pm

Let's Get Sweaty wrote: Explore realistic Japanese town, engage in fenced-in fisticuffs against single or multiple enemies, learn new moves, enter shops to buy items, play games in arcades, engage in a range of tasks for the locals, seek out the truth behind a violent, sinister plot that's dragged you in against your will and threatens to hurt more of the people you care about.


TBH a lot in that description fits a lot of games I'm aware of, like Persona 5 and The World Ends With You.
If you replaced Japanese town with Hong Kong, Shenmue 2 and Sleeping Dogs would be interchangeable games in the eyes of many then.

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Verderame » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:57 pm

I swear to god, the (usually RGG) fanboys that every time feel the need to push this "the Yakuza and Shenmue series shouldn't coexist because my favourite one is so much better and then nobody needs the other" stupid argument are like the most dumb and obtuse people ever.

Yes, they share a lot of superficial similarities, they're both free roaming games set in Japan/Asia with occasional fightings, but that's kinda it, they're deeply different, but this doesn't make one series or another objectively better, you can actually enjoy both, like i guess most people on this site do.

I'm sure that the OP article is well written and on point, still i highly dislike shameless and unnecessary clickbait headlines, so i refuse to open that link.
Last edited by Verderame on Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who needs Shenmue 3?

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:00 pm

It's still worth a read just to see where the writer is coming from, even if ultimately the argument in the title never actually materialises, and the article itself is just a Yakuza wank-piece with a bit of Shenmue window dressing.
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