New Ryo & Shenhua models from press release

[Spaghetti]

Feedback isn't necessarily bad.

But the way things have been phrased in this thread have been, well, unconstructive - to put it lightly. During the first ten or so pages at least; although cooler heads and largely more nuanced opinions have surfaced since.

I don't think it's fair to say just one side is acting out of passion either. Extreme reactions, positive and negative, have come from the same place.

[Peter]

But in my eyes, not giving accurate feedback is far worse. As a backer, I will contribute with my views in all outlets available to me including in person if necessary because I own that to the team making the game. They can't improve something if they think it's perfect.

Oh really? Awesome! I hope to meet you soon after so long. At what location do you think that could be?

I'd love to see that conversation. At what point when you were backing the project did you think you had any say in it? That you were a consultant? An artist? A storywriter? An editor? A musician? A marketing manager? A promotional supervisor?

What did you give your money for? Because it was absolutely crystal clear as day and night that you were a backer. The game provided will be of his creation. You backed that on the knowledge you had at that point in time, based on his previous works and, guess what, his previous works were not created WITH YOUR INPUT!


Honest question, how much younger than Yu Suzuki are you? How much more technical, professional, or life experience do you have than Yu Suzuki. Please answer me that question.

[TwiceFriedRice]

The more I view the character models, the more they grow on me. I think a lot of our initial negative reactions come from the fact that they differ from the original models, and aren't exactly like we pictured them being. As so many first impressions go, it's basically just a product of expectations. They could still use some tweaking though, which will obviously happen.

[ChiefNeo]

The new model's face and structure look good. The one issue, as has been pointed out, is the hair. As soon as you sharpen it, spike it, and gloss it, it becomes Ryo. That same sharpness and gloss is whats missing from Shen hua. It makes her look a bit western and washed out.

Wonder if Yu plans to change the hair at all.


Excited to see it all in action.

[ShenmueLegacy]

The new models and logo do look quite off. Let's keep faith all will eventually reflect the originals and be resolved in due time. Whoever handles marketing, needs to be careful. Either explicitly state it's a work in progress or protect the process and do not show anything, otherwise fans will understandably assume differently.
Again, let's keep faith and hope Gamescom brings with it some great news!
ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN (Choo choo)

[Verderame]

While i think that Peter should calm down a bit, i understand how he feels.
That's modern age internet for you: an huge cesspool where every single dumbest person on the earth has a worldwide-reaching megaphone, a place where anyone can came anytime to dump their frustration without any thought or restraint, and everything it's about being the most XTREME!!! possible while pulling out the faster you can that super-witty-and-snarky hot take to show off how much you're cool and badass.
It sucks, but what can you possibly do about it? The internet is a very stressfull and often unbearable place, it kinda feels like having car exaust gases straight in your face sometimes honestly, and i think that the healthier thing to do every now and then is to take some breaks from it.

[Telekill]

I totally understand where Peter is coming from.

While it may seem like merely a rant to protect Yu Suzuki and Shenmue 3 to some of you, he has some very valid points.
- Our voices will have little impact on the project unless it is a majority of us and Yu Suzuki makes the final call for the change in appeasement or agreement of us.
- People on the internet in general tend to be callus and have little regard for how they present themselves online. Many are very selfish as well to the point of being narcissistic. People are assholes online.
- We really should be happy that Shenmue 3 is happening at all, but instead many are being overly critical of every little piece shown as it generally is not living up to what their personal vision for the game has been for more than a decade.

That said, if we say nothing, then Yu Suzuki and team will not know that the game may need a slight tweaking. That doesn't mean that we need to be jerks about it.

[ShenmueLegacy]

At the end of the day, people are voicing their opinions because they care--they want Shenmue to be the best it can be.

We should respect that.

Without most of us, there would be no Shenmue III.

And after nearly 20 years, this is our last shot.

If Shenmue III isn't good enough, the sales sure won't be, and we can all kiss the rest of the saga sayonara.

We want this work of art to be a masterpiece that will live on well beyond our lives.

Let's understand the passion in each other and keep faith.

Gamescom is just around the corner with some great news!

[Yokosuka]

Feedback isn't necessarily bad.

But the way things have been phrased in this thread have been, well, unconstructive - to put it lightly. During the first ten or so pages at least; although cooler heads and largely more nuanced opinions have surfaced since.

I don't think it's fair to say just one side is acting out of passion either. Extreme reactions, positive and negative, have come from the same place.

By definition, emotions are unconstructive. And I don't see where it's so much an issue. If the next week, some members thinks the Gamescom videos are gorgeous and the new Ryo is awesome, will we reproach these people for expressing their only feeling rather developing nuanced opinions? So I see no reason it should not work in the other direction (and I admit defending my turf here).

[Peter]

Thanks to Telekill and Verderame for reading what I had to say. I am nowhere near as articulate or level headed as people within this community. There are lot more level headed people who's campaigns the community supported or who's blog posts you read. I know who I am and I know the drawbacks/offensiveness of my own posts.


But I will never ever shy away from who I am, and despite all the drawbacks/offensiveness I will also, never ever shy away from a rational debate with someone that feels the same way. But the world isn't like that anymore. It's this side versus that side. My opinion versus their opinions. Poll count to see who comes out on top. Facebook like with this many likes, or Twitter feed with this many hearts.

This is a game in development. Thats the be all and end all of Saturday 19th August 2017. In a week's time we will know more. Then more after that. And so on and so on. I've seen people write this game off as a 6/10, a disgrace, I demand my money back, this is embarasing, I give up, this is fucked, this game will forever disappoint me, looks nothing like the original.....

That ok to feel that way. But I have to ask "why" you feel that way over one picture. Is that how much one picture causes people to react? That one image? Of a work in progress? Which is leaps and bounds better than what has come just 2 short years before it? From a developer who gave you the very reason to voice your opinion here in the first place? With 40+ years of complete oversight, experience and direction? Of man management, down to demanding the very last detail to be EXACTLY how he wants it? Do you think the game was delayed for a laugh? REALLY?

[shredingskin]

Well, I've said various times what I think about the new models, but after a while, I just have to admit they're going with a different visual direction than what the older Shenmues were (maybe what they were always supposed to be /??/).

Too much feelings about basically opinions... OK.

Just noticed that Gamescom is the same day as my sister's birthday.

[sand4fish]

Personally I'm okay with the complaints as long as people don't spread their distaste outside this forum. The game is not even close to hit the shelves and many are already basically trying to "review" aspects of the game beforehand, possibly bringing this doom surrounding S3 by the time it comes out and I bet it will affect the objectivity of critics when they put their hands on the game.
I do see validity in the criticism towards the look of the characters but this is simply unfair. We are talking about art direction here. WIP notwithstanding, this is the vision of the game designer alone and we don't get to partake on that. Besides, let's not forget there's already a fan (or even fans) working for Yu Suzuki, Kid Nocon, so if the problem with the models was a real thing there wouldn't be a need for the rest of us to remind the man of the fact.

[Yokosuka]

@ Peter

I read both your posts and while I understand your view on the "rate everyting" era, I'm still wondering how you could feel "disgusted" by what was said on this thread.

Really don't you find amazing that a community can spend 16 pages to talk about the Ryo's eyebrow and exchange so contrasted opinions? After all, that's the logical continuation of our collective fascination for Shenmue secrets and its smallests details. I'm not only viewing this as a characteristic of our community but also as a pride.

I initially found captivating that people can be so passionate for men kicking a ball in the net to win. Myself was used participating in the forum of the football club of my town. I find amazing to see that Shenmue forums are no different. We're not talking about politics but just a game. People here are ready to overdebate about a screenshot and photoshop it. It's not disgusting, it's fantastic.

Now you probably expected discussions of another kind, for this thread and the overall reactions since the E3 announcement. Well, what could I respond otherwise than by: the world, the people are what they are? Hollow words you'll probably think and you're likely right but I'm still relying on this conception.

"My opinion is better than yours."

I don't know who you're including exactly in your statement but I never got this feeling from any Dojo members I read so far. Never. I saw nothing much than the will to share our very own honest thinking but maybe I'm blind.

I always thought that 90% of the "disputes" in social relationships spring from the difficulty to understand and measure words of each other, 10% truly from the ideas. Making clear what you have in mind is usually much harder than proving your "opinion is better". That's the fuss I used reading here rather than battles of egos. My conception is, don't give words a weight they haven't.

That said, I can only congratulate you and Yama for not making this forum private. Because when I'm reading such a post, looks like we're really close to a precipice.

[fittersau]

At the end of the day, people are voicing their opinions because they care--they want Shenmue to be the best it can be.

We should respect that.

Without most of us, there would be no Shenmue III.

Let's draw this point out more.. quite simply. Without us, Shenmue III would not have existed.

It is precisely this reason why we are so passionate about Deep Silver coming in 2/3rds of the way. We are also investors in this venture called Shenmue 3. For Deep Silver to come in and change the logo just shows profound disrespect for the fans and the franchise. Especially only 2 months ago YsNet announced they reverted back to the original logo.

Yes, Deep Silver are putting money into Shenmue 3, however it's also the money that would have been put in by Sony to do marketing. My angle here is, Deep Silver publishing allows them also to publish to the XB1.

And after nearly 20 years, this is our last shot.
If Shenmue III isn't good enough, the sales sure won't be, and we can all kiss the rest of the saga sayonara.
We want this work of art to be a masterpiece that will live on well beyond our lives.
Let's understand the passion in each other and keep faith.
Gamescom is just around the corner with some great news!

Quite frankly, where was Deep Silver's deep pockets when Shenmue 3 was lounging around without financial support for years? Or any company for that matter... My respect for Sony still holds, because they're the ones who took the risk and announced it and advised they'll help support the game.

To those entities who want ride the coat-tails of the success of the Shenmue kickstarter, don't think you'll get a free ride simply because you've thrown more money at the project than the individuals who have long loved and lived this game. We as 74,699 individuals made Shenmue 3 happen to the tune of $6,784,239. [19th August 2017]

If those who come in and start making wholesale changes against the traditions of Shenmue and its fans, you only come off as an opportunist. If they really want to be part of the Shenmue experience, then they need to work with the fans not despite them.

For me this logo fiasco is the issue mainly because, I'm not so concerned about the models, I already have gotten used to them after the initial aversion.

If YsNet has changed the logo, then we need to remind them about the June update on how happy we were to see things changed back to the original logo. If this is Deep Silver's involvement, then they need to stop using the horrible logo and revert back to the original and issue a statement advising a mistake. Quite simple.

If Deep Silver's investment is $3 million to make up the rest of the original kickstarter amount. Guess what? Us fans have majority share of $6.7 million. Let your voices be heard, this is how we got Shenmue 3 kickstarted and this is how we can help Shemue 3 stay on track.

Shenmue 3 is and will always be a community game requested by the fans, funded by the fans and in the case of NoconKid, made by the fans. Don't shy away from letting your voice be heard.

[iyapol]

For Deep Silver to come in and change the logo just shows profound disrespect for the fans and the franchise.

We don't know that, though. Do we? Let's try and stick to what we do know about Deep Silver's involvement, which is very little at the moment.