Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby PILMAN » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:12 am

Some of the negative reactions were quite overboard.

I alpha tested Kingdom Come: Deliverance and the first thing that was focused on was the city layout/environment, I remember the models being very dull with funky looking hair, really awkward blank expressions and stiff animation which is actually quite common since those models are used as placeholders. Yes, Shenmue III could have had a warning that it was still in development and a work in progress, but I think some people fail to understand what development stage is. I was quite satisfied with the teaser.

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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby south carmain » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:17 am

PILMAN wrote:Yes, Shenmue III could have had a warning that it was still in development and a work in progress

Yeah that was a pretty big mistake. If you're promoting an incomplete product you need to make sure that people know that it is incomplete. That was a pretty big marketing blunder to be honest. I just hope the next trailer will garner as much interest and this time be polished to perfection.
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby elfshadowreaper » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:58 am

Who is handling their marketing at this stage. Is it still Awesome Japan or was that just for the Kickstarter?
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby Spaghetti » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:18 pm

elfshadowreaper wrote: Who is handling their marketing at this stage. Is it still Awesome Japan or was that just for the Kickstarter?

Awesome Japan are Kickstarter administration with some limited PR capacity. That's likely not changed much.

south carmain wrote:
PILMAN wrote:Yes, Shenmue III could have had a warning that it was still in development and a work in progress

Yeah that was a pretty big mistake. If you're promoting an incomplete product you need to make sure that people know that it is incomplete. That was a pretty big marketing blunder to be honest. I just hope the next trailer will garner as much interest and this time be polished to perfection.

The YouTube description made it very clear it was an in-development build when it first launched on Sony's channel, so it isn't like the game wasn't marked as such.

The naivety was expecting people to read the description and using their heads to realise that of course things are going to improve from now until release.

Though to be honest, people would have bitched regardless. YSnet has put out screens and footage before that had various disclaimers about unfinished materials right on screen and people still whined.

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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:41 pm

Spaghetti wrote:
elfshadowreaper wrote: Who is handling their marketing at this stage. Is it still Awesome Japan or was that just for the Kickstarter?

Awesome Japan are Kickstarter administration with some limited PR capacity. That's likely not changed much.

south carmain wrote:
PILMAN wrote:Yes, Shenmue III could have had a warning that it was still in development and a work in progress

Yeah that was a pretty big mistake. If you're promoting an incomplete product you need to make sure that people know that it is incomplete. That was a pretty big marketing blunder to be honest. I just hope the next trailer will garner as much interest and this time be polished to perfection.

The YouTube description made it very clear it was an in-development build when it first launched on Sony's channel, so it isn't like the game wasn't marked as such.

The naivety was expecting people to read the description and using their heads to realise that of course things are going to improve from now until release.

Though to be honest, people would have bitched regardless. YSnet has put out screens and footage before that had various disclaimers about unfinished materials right on screen and people still whined.


This is very true. Shenmue haters are deluded beyond belief. Remember the Lake of The Lantern Bugs trailer? They clearly stated in the video that it was WIP footage and yet it still got blasted by the idiots on YouTube. Since then, I've never read Youtube comments again. In fact, I only come here now and I always will. Though after Shenmue III releases and it's a success, I'll be tempted to rub it in their faces! That would be awesome.
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby Spaghetti » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:47 pm

Yep. Lake of the Lantern Bugs is a great example of how it doesn't matter how clearly YSnet mark materials as subject to change.

The only other option was not releasing any footage, and risking angering nutcases like Waves & co over in the KS comments, or inciting clickbait "OMG IS SHENMUE 3 DEAD/CANCELLED/IN TROUBLE?!" due to perceived silence (already started appearing post-E3 this year, and some last year too, for an extra dose of stupidity).

It was a rock and a hard place. YSnet got extra fucked by development issues meaning the facial animations had to be disabled for whatever build(s) the Gamescom footage was taken from.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again, at least YSnet were honest with us.

It's a very rare thing for a developer with a high-ish profile game to do, which leads to instances of pre-release footage looking better than the game does when it comes out. At least we can reasonably expect Shenmue III's visuals and presentation to improve, rather than worry about an all-too-perfect showing getting downgraded.

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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby south carmain » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:02 pm

Spaghetti wrote:
elfshadowreaper wrote: Who is handling their marketing at this stage. Is it still Awesome Japan or was that just for the Kickstarter?

Awesome Japan are Kickstarter administration with some limited PR capacity. That's likely not changed much.

south carmain wrote:
PILMAN wrote:Yes, Shenmue III could have had a warning that it was still in development and a work in progress

Yeah that was a pretty big mistake. If you're promoting an incomplete product you need to make sure that people know that it is incomplete. That was a pretty big marketing blunder to be honest. I just hope the next trailer will garner as much interest and this time be polished to perfection.

The YouTube description made it very clear it was an in-development build when it first launched on Sony's channel, so it isn't like the game wasn't marked as such.

The naivety was expecting people to read the description and using their heads to realise that of course things are going to improve from now until release.

Though to be honest, people would have bitched regardless. YSnet has put out screens and footage before that had various disclaimers about unfinished materials right on screen and people still whined.

Hence why its a marketing blunder. This was promotional and not a kickstarter update hence why not taking in to account that the public wouldnt look in to a description and treat it as a trailer was a promotional blunder on their behalf. If you're advertising a lroduct you can't blame the public for not understanding your advertisement.

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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby shredingskin » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:05 pm

very novice marketing guy knows that most people don't read yt descriptions.

BTW, just found out about Niao Sun an Lan Di in the trailer.

DC models or new ones ?
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby south carmain » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:10 pm

shredingskin wrote: very novice marketing guy knows that most people don't read yt descriptions.

BTW, just found out about Niao Sun an Lan Di in the trailer.

DC models or new ones ?

10 year old kids screaming racial slurs on youtube know no one checks descriptions.
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby Spaghetti » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:30 pm

I don't understand why we have to constantly absolve a section of an audience of their ignorance, but feel the need to roast YSnet over the fire when they had a complicated situation to deal with, compounded by an unforeseen development blip that affected a majority of what they wanted to show.

Could YSnet have cut around these issues? Maybe, but it'd have led to a much shorter display. Should they have? Again, maybe, but choosing to show us what they intended warts n' all is still a respectable decision to be honest with the audience; in an industry that is heavily stage-managed to the point where half-truths to outright lies can be used as a marketing tactic right up until launch.

YSnet has a reasonable excuse. What was the excuse of the people who didn't bother to read, or use their heads? I've been waiting for this teaser to drop since we first got wind of something coming last year, and I still took the five seconds to read the description before I hit play.

It was not a uniform reaction either; many likely read the description, knew the difference between teaser and trailer, or just used common sense to realise a work in progress is going to look like a work in progress.

Even on YouTube the like to dislike ratio is still 3:1, so treating it like some unanimous disaster is hyperbolic and false.

I'd rather take the naivety of YSnet than the slick, cynical shit of many other game devs.
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby shredingskin » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:41 pm

Spaghetti wrote:
-I don't understand why we have to constantly absolve a section of an audience of their ignorance, but feel the need to roast YSnet over the fire
-Could YSnet have cut around these issues?
-Should they have?

-I'd rather take the naivety of YSnet than the slick, cynical shit of many other game devs.


Because those are who they're trying to appeal to.
Yes. Even the video edition was rough af.
If they want to get better reactions, yes.

I agree.

But no one is going into torches to YSnet, it's just that some of the complaints could have been easily avoided.
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby south carmain » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:49 pm

Spaghetti wrote:I don't understand why we have to constantly absolve a section of an audience of their ignorance, but feel the need to roast YSnet over the fire when they had a complicated situation to deal with, compounded by an unforeseen development blip that affected a majority of what they wanted to show.

Could YSnet have cut around these issues? Maybe, but it'd have led to a much shorter display. Should they have? Again, maybe, but choosing to show us what they intended warts n' all is still a respectable decision to be honest with the audience; in an industry that is heavily stage-managed to the point where half-truths to outright lies can be used as a marketing tactic right up until launch.

YSnet has a reasonable excuse. What was the excuse of the people who didn't bother to read, or use their heads? I've been waiting for this teaser to drop since we first got wind of something coming last year, and I still took the five seconds to read the description before I hit play.

It was not a uniform reaction either; many likely read the description, knew the difference between teaser and trailer, or just used common sense to realise a work in progress is going to look like a work in progress.

Even on YouTube the like to dislike ratio is still 3:1, so treating it like some unanimous disaster is hyperbolic and false.

I'd rather take the naivety of YSnet than the slick, cynical shit of many other game devs.


I'm not roasting Ysnet i don't even think they are in charge of marketing the game and rushed this teaser out at the request of the marketing team. But that doesn't change the reality that shenmue is a commercial product and any failure to promote it properly and efficiently is a marketing blunder on their behalf. It doesn't have to be a complete disaster for it to be a blunder, it being a marketing blunder just means that it was handled poorly and got way more negative feedback than it could have if they hadn't rushed it out or made it more obvious that it was just work in progress.

Also those who didnt read the description don't need an excuse. Ysnet are trying to sell these people this game so it's only normal that they would adapt their marketing to the market and not expect the market to adapt to their marketing
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby Spaghetti » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:01 pm

It's funny how half the gameplay-related discussions here are filled with hand-wringing about "casualisation" and not wanting Shenmue III to appeal to the lowest common denominator, but in this thread there are arguments being made for making progress videos slicker for the sake of people who either; don't take five seconds to read a YouTube description, or even ignore the same disclaimers when slapped right there on the videos.

It's all moot point anyway.

We know YSnet weren't comfortable with what they showed and only did it out of obligation. We know many, many aspects were still temporary and set for improvements. We know YSnet do not consider this promotional, and will be ramping things up on that side next year (or the end of this year at the very earliest).

We're almost a month past Gamescom. The game has maybe up to 16 months of development left on the horizon, with a bigger budget, an expanded scope, a slightly larger team, and a Yu Suzuki with more freedom to throw himself into development. There will be plenty of other opportunities to win people over, and when the game is in a better position to do so.

Things are looking up, you miserable bastards. :lol:
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby south carmain » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:11 pm

I'm not sure how releasing a polished trailer is "appealing to the lowest common denominator" but okey. The whole point is that shenmue is still a product and as such it needs to be marketed properly. Just because you check description boxes in no way means that putting important information in them is a wise marketing decision. In fact what you do doesnt matter much since you're already a guaranteed sale so there's no reason to promote the product towards people like you in the first place.
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Re: Shenmue III teaser is FINALLY HERE!!

Postby shredingskin » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:16 pm

Even not treating it as a publicity stunt is a lack of knowledge, that's also the reason you are talking about regular consumers and not just backers.

There were many avoidable mistakes, like instead of adding the disclaimer in the descriptions putting it 2 seconds before the trailer or down in the trailer, some bad transitions, the faces at the end to come a few days later "yes those are not there yet", it looks out of place and we can all agree that just not adding it would make the trailer look less amateurish. Really, I was thinking "fuck, they're really proud of them or something".

It's not something to die for, but also let's not just attack regular guys that have a limited interest in the game for not being sold by it.

The thing is like this, let's assume you want to flirt with a girl:
- yo, bitch, let's fuck.
- Fuck off.
- Joke is on her, if we spent time she would find I'm actually a nice guy.


Maybe it's 4D chess and they wanted to get some backlash to give it more notoriety, who knows.
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