"Unlike Shenmue II it won't use the Virtua engine."

[shredingskin]

I do really hope they don't do QTE david cage style, they are stupidly bad:
First of all most of the QTEs he does takes a percentage to succeed, meaning most of the sequences have quite a lot of commands (let's say 10 and you succed by pressing 7), so the wrong moves you do don't have that instantaneous repercussion as Shenmue QTEs had. Shenmue QTEs are often called "one of the few games that did them good" because of the arcadey nature of them, the good mapping of them to the controls and moves we already know and that they have cinematic weight. All of those strong points get buried when you try to do a big sequence of QTEs like cage does. The only interesting thing is how he maps the prompts on the screen, but it takes away to the cinematic approach Shenmue had. To me David Cage is one of the hackiest designers out there.

Thinking about the skill tree. Maybe we get something more similar to Yakuza ? That we might have bajiquan/jujitsu/other style and we can get more moves for each style that we can switch ?? Or maybe it's divided like the original in grabs/puches/kicks ?? I would prefer the second one, if we maintain the input move similar to the originals, but if we go with something more arkham the yakuza style might fit better.

[Your Boy Leroy]

I do really hope they don't do QTE david cage style, they are stupidly bad:
First of all most of the QTEs he does takes a percentage to succeed, meaning most of the sequences have quite a lot of commands (let's say 10 and you succed by pressing 7), so the wrong moves you do don't have that instantaneous repercussion as Shenmue QTEs had. Shenmue QTEs are often called "one of the few games that did them good" because of the arcadey nature of them, the good mapping of them to the controls and moves we already know and that they have cinematic weight. All of those strong points get buried when you try to do a big sequence of QTEs like cage does. The only interesting thing is how he maps the prompts on the screen, but it takes away to the cinematic approach Shenmue had. To me David Cage is one of the hackiest designers out there.

Well put. Makes sense.

I still found them fun though.

[Let's Get Sweaty]

When I get around to reading this thread it's going to be interesting to see how it got to four pages, because the statement in the title is nothing we didn't already know from the early days of the project.

[DoubleO_Ren]

Consider this remark in the Dengeki Online interview (thanks to Switch for the translation):

YS: The skill tree won't be overly complex, but one is planned. If it's complicated it could be hard to get to grips with, so it will fill itself in automatically as you do various things. However, checking the tree and deliberately building it up I think will be even more enjoyable.

Of course, even if you don't fill the skill tree the game will move forward. Achieving an impressive victory by performing a series of special moves, or barely scraping in with a win - I would like to implement this kind of level of distinction.

It doesn't really describe the method of input but it is reassuring that it will be possible to perform a series of special moves if you play well.

That's quite reassuring, I have faith in Suzuki mainly because he said he doesn't wanna look at what modern developers are doing and he has his own vision, his vision has never let me down yet apart from a few nitpicks.

When I get around to reading this thread it's going to be interesting to see how it got to four pages, because the statement in the title is nothing we didn't already know from the early days of the project.

I think it's because he's recently doubled down on the statement where as before it was taken with a grain of salt.

[Spaghetti]

I mean, to some degree you can still take what he says with a grain of salt because we haven't seen anything in practice yet.

But everything Yu's said has to be acknowledged in bulk and in context rather than any single line in an interview transcript. The bigger picture is important, and honestly a lot of it sounds like it could be very interesting and intricate in practice.

The only thing that is 100% absolutely certain is that it won't be using the VF engine. If that's genuinely a jumping off point for anybody regardless of what it gets replaced with, then sorry, but that's absolutely not going to change for many reasons.

[DoubleO_Ren]

I hadn't seen the updated interview, don't think it was even released yet, only the first article where all he said was it was going to be simplified and not Virtua Fighter.

[Spaghetti]

That's fair enough. It wasn't directed to anybody in particular anyway.

I've seen some pretty disappointing YouTube comments about this subject, though. There's an almost militant opposition to change, or something new being created that worries me. The worst of it is, I don't think people are realising exactly how old the VF engine is and what constraints that would entail.

[DoubleO_Ren]

That's fair enough. It wasn't directed to anybody in particular anyway.

I've seen some pretty disappointing YouTube comments about this subject, though. There's an almost militant opposition to change, or something new being created that worries me. The worst of it is, I don't think people are realising exactly how old the VF engine is and what constraints that would entail.

Really? Could you link me to the video that's producing these comments, would be very interested to see.

[Spaghetti]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUktzVlAIc

[killthesagabeforeitkillsu]

VF engine is indeed pretty old... But it's still the best fighting game ever created. It's also notorious for being a casual filter due to the need of input memorization which might be the reason why YS wants to make the fighting more casual friendly.

[Spaghetti]

That might be overstating things a bit. In regards to both VF and Shenmue III's combat.

VF is probably one of the harder fighting games to master but you can just pick up and play like any other. There are characters that are easier to use than others, and are used to ease players in on difficulty. Like for example; a good beginner character is Lau because of the easy early combos like PPPK.

Yu's career was largely successful based on his desire to make games that are fun to play and make the player satisfied. You can trace that pretty much back to the start. Keiji Okayasu pretty much said the same about Yu in his interview when he joined Shenmue III.

Yu isn't adjusting to some perceived shift in player ability dropping, he's doing what he's always done. And what has he done? Made fun games that are largely easy to pick up and enjoy, but offer deeper satisfaction for more skilled players willing to invest the time and effort.

[DoubleO_Ren]

PPPK.

OH YEEEEEEAAAHH!!
Master Baihu FTW.

Hmm I wouldn;t mind a simpler fighting game type system maybe have the moves from VF but make them all have even easier inputs than Shenmue I and II like punch and kick could be the Tornado Kick instead of forward Forward Kick kick.

[killthesagabeforeitkillsu]

I have no idea what YS is thinking. He might has well think youngsters can't read manuscript or memorize a combo with more than two inputs. Until we see footage of the free battle system, it's anyone's guess.

Personally, there is a level of continuity in terms of mechanics and design I would love to be kept intact, instead of trying to catch lighting in a bottle twice.

[Spaghetti]

Somehow ended up watching active ragdoll in UE4 videos.

I tell you what; throwing enemies into walls/other enemies/objects, stuff like leg-sweeps, and other forceful moves, are going to look cool as fuck.

[MiTT3NZ]

The Arkham combat is interesting, because you can kinda see the genesis of that kind of fighting with Shenmue's counter system.