S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Fluffy90 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:56 pm

Image

Compared to Yakuza NPC i'd say overall perhaps it's better but the motions could obviously use some work,however saying that it does seem shenmue-esque which to the general public seems terrible but i sort of like it actually.

At this point i think people should prepare themselves for shenmue to not look amazing at release ,as long as the story delivers then that's the main thing imho.

Shenmue III is a fan funded kickstarter,set your expectations right and enjoy it for what it is,we are lucky it's even happening at all!
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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby OL » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:08 pm

^^To be fair, their funding goes beyond just the money raised in the kickstarter.

Anyway, I'm not impressed, I'm not disappointed.
It just is what it is. And what it is, is a twenty-second look at someone on the dev team moving a couple sliders to make a face move. Even he's kind of making fun of it as he goes.
It's a work it progress, and only barely represents what the final product will be. It's not exactly something we can gauge overall quality on.
I don't understand this need to either be really impressed by it (it's really not impressive at all; I've seen better animation in SFM porn), or to put it down for not being on the level of a friggin' Naughty Dog game.
I'm pretty sure it's okay to be neutral about it.

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Fluffy90 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:18 pm

The thing about shenmue npc's is there are so many and it would be very hard even with a large budget to do mo-cap or the like for so many characters.

Shenmue often get's laughed at because of the character's movements,voice ect and largely on the whole i think shenmue III is going to carry on this tradition ,we might even get that one japanese voice actor doing 100 NPC's again :D
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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Shenmue_Trilogy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:31 pm

I am not sure what the point of this video is. After the gamescom trailer Ys team wanted to show the audience and fans that the characters have indeed (different) face animations? Well, they proved their point. But when it comes to quality of animations they doesn't look really great neither by current standards. When you see the old women talk her upper face looks dead except blinking of the eyes. As "OL" said it is what it is: Kickstarter compaign and still in development. So no worries here. Lets wait and see.
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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:28 pm

Animations are a bit stiff but it's better than blank stares.

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Fluffy90 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:25 pm

Shenmue_Trilogy wrote: I am not sure what the point of this video is. After the gamescom trailer Ys team wanted to show the audience and fans that the characters have indeed (different) face animations? Well, they proved their point. But when it comes to quality of animations they doesn't look really great neither by current standards. When you see the old women talk her upper face looks dead except blinking of the eyes. As "OL" said it is what it is: Kickstarter compaign and still in development. So no worries here. Lets wait and see.


Her facial movement reminds me of the shenmue passport renders :D
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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Centrale » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:21 pm

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote: Animations are a bit stiff but it's better than blank stares.


Well, the "grandma" in particular isn't showing animations. It's a video of the animator manually moving some of the animation controls to demonstrate some of the possible facial expressions. So moving the controls individually produces these sorts of linear motions, but when they actually animate the character it should be fluid and natural.

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Telekill » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:16 pm

Yeah... I'm not understanding the outright angst people have for Shenmue. Many have already stated that it's a Kickstarter game with limited funds. That was obvious since E3 2015 or the Kickstarter would have never happened. It was explained pretty well.

As for the Naughty Dog comparison earlier... comparing one of the most talented devs currently in the industry that has nearly unlimited resources given their successes with that of YsNet that has severely limited resources... is just asinine. That said, I would still put Yu Suzuki as being just as talented as anyone at Naughty Dog.

In reference to maybe we shouldn't be having blind fanboyism or maybe we should be more subjective instead of just having faith in the project... I would remind anyone that says otherwise that it was the fanboy's faith that got Shenmue 3 off the ground and made it a reality. I will admit that I had lost faith in ever seeing Shenmue continue and then when I saw the Kickstarter announcement... after picking my jaw up off the floor, I quickly added my piece of the pie to the project.

I knew right from the beginning that Shenmue 3 wouldn't be on the level of today's AAA games. It wouldn't be an Uncharted, Red Dead Redemption or Assassin's Creed and you know what...?... It doesn't need to be. Shenmue 1 and 2 were incredible games regardless of not having today's graphical and animation fidelity.

As I loved and still love the original Shenmue games... that was my baseline for what to expect from the graphic and animation capabilities of the third game. In all honesty... that's what I was actually expecting... but in HD resolution... and I was just fine with it. When it broke records getting 3x what Suzuki-san was asking... my expectation for the graphical and animation fidelity remained at around Dreamcast levels. Granted, that was partially because I was having difficulty envisioning a modern day Shenmue.

Given the teaser trailer and the facial animation update, the project is thus far, exceeding my expectations. My main concern right now is two fold.

1. Will Sega give us the first two games in HD?
2. I'm more than likely going to be moving in the next six months. If the surveys on where to send my copy of the game comes before I discover where my new address will be, I'm not sure where to have them send it.

Am I at all worried about Shenmue 3 and that I'll be enjoying it? Not. At. All.

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:38 am

Nahovil wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote:That's bollocks. He's done fuck all wrong really other than posting summat that you happen to disagree with. It's not as if he's just gone "Shanmu 3z guna b shit lulz", he just has a different opinion. It's not really grounds for banning someone, is it?



"Leniency"? No offense, but that was sound so childishly patronising. He voiced his opinion on a public forum.

You can't condone people for expecting professional standards, regardless of it being a crowdfunded project or not. More than graphics and details, it's a directing issue. There's enough of a budget for a shorter, story-rich experience, one in which the standards of realism and environment of the original instalments wouldn't need sacrificing. People are fooling themselves too, if they believe this is "merely developmental", "that it's a WIP and there's still one whole year to go". I mean, technically, it is but it's not like the animations will turn fucking stellar from this point on, now is it?


Of course they will. It is still early in development and also at LEAST a year left before it's released. There is a lot of time left. Taking these factors into account, it'd be very stupid to treat this footage like it's the final product when it is definetly nowhere close yet.

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby KidMarine » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:56 am

Nahovil wrote:People are fooling themselves too, if they believe this is "merely developmental", "that it's a WIP and there's still one whole year to go".

Um, that's entirely true though? Literally objectively true.

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Nahovil » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:16 am

What, really?
Did you read the remaining sentence? I'm addressing what that position implies.
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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby KidMarine » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:18 am

If you think the animation won't improve over a test, you're not just wrong, you're delusional.

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Nahovil » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:13 am

It seems you are encountering some difficulty interpreting my posts. I'll lay it out clear:

Considering that the type of animation and workflow is explicit by now, the graphic detail, animations and renderings, by this point, will not greatly (turn "fucking stellar", remember?) improve over a test.

This point of view may make wrong, it certainly doesn't make me delusional, but in all it shames you a little by your assessment of it by calling someone "delusional" with such ease.
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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby Kiske » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:58 am

Maybe it's good to remind us what's the actual reality of Shenmue 3 development.

Are we (still) expecting Shenmue 3 to be at AAA standards?

Thanks to the Kickstarter and following Slacker Backer campaigns (6,813,403$ at the moment), the funds that will really go into Shenmue 3 development budget from crowdfunding are actually more or less 4,905,000$ best case scenario.

Image

Nobody knows how much funding is coming from private investors but we do know that Yu Suzuki said he would be able to create the Shenmue 3 experience he has in mind for $10 million, so let's assume that's what the budget really is.

Yu Suzuki explained repeatedly and most recently in the interview to M! Games the budget situation.

Q) There were a lot of critical responses for the Shenmue 3 teaser. What would you tell the people who feel disappointed?

A) We don't have any facial expressions in the game right now and none of the character models are final yet. So it will look different and better in the final game. The teaser is not representing the quality of the final game, we are still in the middle of developing. And of course you have to remember the budget. The budget is good enough for our game, but it's pretty small if you compare it to other games right now. We can't keep up with big modern games. We would need a way bigger budget (ten times bigger than now) to make perfect modern graphics. So we need to find a good middle way between good graphics and good content. Please don't expect high-end graphics, Shenmue 3 is not about that.


I don't know if people have too much expectations, if they are missing the point of what the existence of Shenmue 3 means or if there's a lot of bad faith around, but the way Shenmue 3 development is treated by average media outlets look unfair to me.

By comparison, GTA V development budget was around $137 million according to media analyst Arvind Bhatia.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developme ... eft_Auto_V

This doesn't mean we shall expect Shenmue 3 to be a bad game, with ugly graphics and amateurish animations.

Q) You said that Shenmue 3 will be bigger than you thought at first?

A) Yes, the game will probably be three times as big as I had in mind at the beginning. One of the villages has over 200 residents now instead of just 50. This village alone is five times bigger than I had in mind.

Q) But still - Shenmue 3 hasn't the same budget as 1 or 2. What do you have to change in the game because of that?

A) The story is still intact but I had to adjust some of the extra elements and details. We talked about the 200 people in that village - maybe we will even have 400 in the end, I haven't decided yet. You have to remember that all the city/village residents in 1 & 2 had a "real" simulated life - that's a really complicated and tough task and the budget for Shenmue 3 is probably not big enough to do that again.


We need to accept that choices are to be made and as Yu Suzuki says, that a middle way has to be found between good graphics and good content.

The Shenmue Serie are much more than just graphics ahead of their time and Shenmue 3, also thanks to Deep Silver partnership will be better and bigger than what even Yu was expecting when he started this Journey.

Just have faith guys.
It may take longer than expected, but I'm sure the final result is going to be the best we could have dreamed of. :king:

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Re: S3 Progress Report Vol 4 Facial Animations

Postby KidMarine » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:22 am

Nahovil wrote: but in all it shames you a little by your assessment of it by calling someone "delusional" with such ease.

I'm all for criticism, I don't like the first model shown in this update at all, but to think that the animation won't improve over the test we're shown here or the character models won't improve even though Yu says they're placeholders, well then you're ignorant at best. Sorry.
Kiske wrote:Image

This but with slightly better models is all I want from the game aesthetically, and more than I thought possible. If it looks this good I'll be over the moon.

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