Metal Gear series

[Thief]

Although I will play Metal Gear rising -- since I'm doomed to play every metal gear that comes out for the rest of my sorry existence -- I'm not exactly looking forward to it. I thought I hated what they did to Raiden's character when Metal Gear Solid 4 came out but geez... look at him now.

[mue 26]

I couldn't give a shit about whether Raiden is "in character" or not, personally. This game looks absolutely batshit mental...and I like it!

[Bluecast]

I couldn't give a shit about whether Raiden is "in character" or not, personally. This game looks absolutely batshit mental...and I like it!

Agreed.

Also I'm in the minority not caring for Grey Fox design and like Raiden's more.
I just want a good Ninja hack shit up game and Platinum knows how to deliver action games like no one else.

[Tuffty]

I guess I'm in a different scenario from all of you guys because I haven't even played MGS4. Still a bit crazy considering I've really enjoyed 1-3. To me it's like Rising isn't even tied to the Metal Gear series at all and is just a stand alone game. I'm hoping it doesn't use too many ties to MGS4 when it comes to it's story. It looks completely off the chain and I can't wait to play it.

I'm kind of torn on that video...
I mean, from a gameplay standpoint I'm now completely sold. It all looks fantastic.
But -- and maybe this just comes from the fact that I haven't been religiously following all the hype and whatnot for it -- what the hell is up with Raiden's characterization? The voiceover sounds like Quinton Flynn is trying to do David Hayter's Solid Snake "gravel," while the writing is making Raiden out to be a total psychopath.
I wouldn't be bothered by it if it were anything else; give me something with a completely new character who just happens to be a slicing and dicing psycho, and I'd be game.
But this is Raiden. An established character with established fans, who's never acted like that before. Hearing him, specifically, talk about "getting off" on cutting people up actually kind of bothers me.

So is there any kind of explanation so far for this complete change in character, or am I the only one seeing that this is just as bad as (if not worse than) new Dante's constant "fuck you's"?

I can't possibly comment on Raiden's character here considering I've only seen him from MGS2 and don't know how his attitude has shifted (if at all) from then to MGS4. But isn't the writing all handled by Kojima though?

[OL]

I don't believe so. The game was handed over to Platinum games, and practically the entire project turned into something else. He may be overseeing it, but I don't believe he's actually written it.
And yeah, even just compared to MGS4, Raiden's personality is totally different. MGS4 he was the stoic, focused soldier. Here, he's a psychopathic loon, going on about how much he enjoys slicing people up. It's a very big difference. People can try to excuse it because MGS "already jumped the shark" or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that they're clearly messing with his character in a huge way.
I mean, why even use Raiden if this is what they decided to go for? Why not just a new cyborg ninja or something?
It's not like I'm totally against the game or anything, but I am interested as hell to see if there's any kind of explanation for it all, because it is a pretty drastic change.

[Henry Spencer]

MGS4 Snake was a drastic change from MGS2 Snake as well, though. And that was from Kojima. Don't see the difference. And MGS4 Raiden was anything but stoic, he whined and whined and whined, like a little baby.

[mue 26]

Yeah I don't believe Kojima is the writer, but I'm pretty sure it's still the same guy from Koj Prod who was in charge of the writing of the game's original incarnation too. Of course, he was put under the instruction of Platinum though, who did tell him to change the script in a load of ways they saw fit.

Still, I really wouldn't take it too seriously. I LOVE the story and script of every Metal Gear game (most definitely including MGS4), but really, I'm not going to be playing Rising for that classic MGS storyline feel. It's main draw isn't so much that it's a MG game, but that it's bound to be an absolutely mentalist Platinum classic OTT action extravaganza. It's original incarnation probably would have ended up a "truer" MG experience, but that wasn't to be. This game as it is just gives Platinum the budget, resources and excuse to make the technically impressive action game they want to make in a loosely Metal Gear themed playground.

Also, while I agree with OL that it may not be an excuse, I also have to agree with Henry in that restraint, control and consistency have never been the highest virtues of Kojima productions anyway.

[OL]

MGS4 Snake was a drastic change from MGS2 Snake as well, though. And that was from Kojima. Don't see the difference.

How was he changed? Seemed about the same to me. If there was any change at all, it was just from the fact that he was supposed to have aged a bit (and they definitely went out of their way to make him seem older).
It's nowhere near the same as going from "mission-focused soldier" to "foaming-at-the-mouth nutjob". It's a huge difference.

[Bluecast]

Guys it's Non Cannon.

[Henry Spencer]

It's actually never been confirmed or denied, unless you've got a link saying so?

MGS4 Snake was a drastic change from MGS2 Snake as well, though. And that was from Kojima. Don't see the difference.

How was he changed? Seemed about the same to me. If there was any change at all, it was just from the fact that he was supposed to have aged a bit (and they definitely went out of their way to make him seem older).
It's nowhere near the same as going from "mission-focused soldier" to "foaming-at-the-mouth nutjob". It's a huge difference.

How wasn't he different? He was so weak willed in MGS4 compared to the strength he had shown in MGS2, he was inspirational in MGS2, whereas in MGS4 everybody and I mean everybody took the absolute piss out of him. And he was so fine with it, like yeah, it's okay. You honestly think the Snake of MGS2 would take that shit? And Snake was so silent in MGS4, most of the time he had nothing to say, in MGS2 he was almost always having a say in what happens and people listened to him, in MGS4, he couldn't be more ignored. And Snake doesn't get pissed off in MGS4, instead of being jaded and grumpy, he is pretty much 'meh' about every situation presented to him. He just never reveals himself as a character like he did previously, he's just too quiet, bored and doesn't care.

Like mue says, Kojima Productions in general aren't great when it comes to character consistency. See, that's why I hated MGS4's storyline, almost everybody was nothing like they were in the previous games. Same with Otacon; MGS2 Otacon was stronger than he was in MGS1; in MGS4, he reverts back to the same ways of what he was like in MGS1.

And I wasn't a fan of MGS4 Raiden at all, so I'm completely fine with them changing him up. I was sick of his moping in MGS4. I'd actually argue it's closer to MGS2 Raiden the way he is now; "Jack the Ripper", "White Devil" and all the other names he was given in MGS2, it's all harking back to Raiden's sordid past we only know little about from tidbits in MGS2. Yeah, it's a complete change from MGS4, but I don't mind them totally ignoring MGS4.

[OL]

Just saw this cover for the collector's edition of the strategy guide on amazon, and it's made me a little happier with the game's apparent direction.



It seems to suggest some sort of duality. A "light" side and a "dark" side. So, as I was hoping, maybe something really does happen to change Raiden into what he's shown to be in the trailers.
That's all I was asking for, really, rather than the simple, lazy 180 it was appearing to be.

[Bluecast]

This is going to sound weird and really not meant to be a joke considering. I'm really really bored with light dark side Orange Blue covers on things. It's just so over used IMO. They now all practically look the same to me. AT least it's not as bad as Sonic Metroid Adventure on Wii.

[OL]

I kind of am too. But the concept itself isn't a lost cause. Just depends on implementation.

[Kenny]

I played the demo not too long ago. The parry system was kind of whack to get used to, but once I got it the game became a blast. Had to play through it a couple of times, it was that awesome.

The story seems like it will be pretty cool (the dog robot fight was one of the best dialogue exchanges I've ever seen in a game for quite some time) though I don't care what any of you say, I'm still not really buying Raiden's "GRRR-I'm COOL" attitude. It's not terrible but not fitting. They should've gone with that in MGS4, then it would've been a better transition to see a naive MGS2 Raiden turn to such a cynical yet cool badass in 4 (instead of a broody whiny crybaby). They missed their chance there but hopefully it'll work in the final game.

The Metal Gear fanboy in me is making me break my $15 rule so I can get my slimy little mitts on the Limited Edition now.

[Henry Spencer]

I too have also played the demo now. I previously played the demo of Rising at a gaming event I attended in Manchester. It's the same demo, but now I can actually let the experience soak in more. It's got that very tight gameplay design that Platinum are known for, the parry system is rather unique and it's refreshing to see an action game not fall into the same traps that most follow to the letter all of the time. I also really enjoy the fact that every piece of environment can be wrecked into tiny little pieces. I hope we see this amount of detail in games in the future. The amount of combos you can pull off in combat is insane, it's honestly like Raiden just never stops slashing and kicking enemies forever.

Also, I think it is safe to say that Raiden's dialogue found in the trailer Orange and Segata were ragging on, are from much later into the game, so it's not like Raiden is the mad, starking, raving lunatic "I love killing everything" psychopath that he is portrayed as being in that trailer, at least at this point in the game. Something must happen to him as the game progresses to make him that way inclined, either that or it's his "Berserker mode" where he can't control his own actions and destroys everything Guts style (hence the red eyes). Again, this is just speculation on my part.

Also, codec is back in a big way, really happy to see that, Ironic that Kojima himself failed so hard on that in his last two Metal Gear titles. Here, it's a return to form, the codec cast are interesting and fun to listen to and they all have accents (none of this Twin Snakes nonsense where everybody is American). VR Missions returning in a big way too, is another nice surprise. I enjoy the visuals greatly too. The enemy unit is something I'm excited about as well, again, Kojima has failed miserably at creating a unique force of villains since MGS3's Cobra Unit, these villains are the most interesting in quite some time (MGS4's sucked and Peace Walker didn't have any!)

Overall, it makes the wait for the game much harder. Very pleased with the demo, just like Kenneth.