2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Bluecast » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:20 pm

Kenny wrote: As was John Carter and Conan and look how well those recent entries did.

Those were more obscure. Everyone knows Superman,Batman and such as much as Mickey Mouse and Mario these days
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:53 pm

Let's see how many people refer to Cyborg as "the black terminator guy" when he makes his inevitable appearance.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby KiBa » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:00 pm

All they have to do is make it as awesome as Bruce W. Timm's Justice League, and that means making it have a distinct and likable style that combines futuristic elements and lots of focus on Batman investigating in dark corners and Superman's last son of Krypton destiny, so as to distinguish it from The Avengers. However, they won't, ergo it will be mediocre.

Warner Bros.' DC doesn't get the concept of the golden mean at all. They oscillate from Batman & Robin neon lights and Bat Nipples to Nolan's contemporary bleak and grit, without any ability whatsoever to just stop in the middle, and give Superman and Bats a unique aesthetic without turning it into a circus. That's all anybody wants, but will never get outside of Batman: The Animated Series.

Moreover, it's just the wrong direction to go anyhow, unless they bring the Justice League in a wholly new and unexpected direction. You don't follow your competitors with a copycat production years after its way too late, with a hugely inconsistent line-up of characters. Maybe no one will be interested in superhero ensembles in two years, except in the established success of The Avengers. It will become a cliche. They ought to be innovating with the unique material they have. They should be making a Batman Beyond movie or rebooting The Shadow just for me because I'm that important.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Kenny » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:59 pm

Bluecast wrote:
Kenny wrote: As was John Carter and Conan and look how well those recent entries did.

Those were more obscure. Everyone knows Superman,Batman and such as much as Mickey Mouse and Mario these days


Not really. Especially Conan which was relatively popular in the '80s. And i'm not disputing Superman or Batman, it's everyone else. Superman and Batman had films released sporadically since the '70s and '80s. Everyone knows them. Again, who really knows about Flash, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman? The last thing WW had was a show in the '70s and its only recent development was a failed non-aired pilot.

The only real edge WW & crew have is that they have a presence in the animated world but who outside kids and older fans know those exist in the mainstream? The everyday person walking down the street? That's my ultimate point. All films after Iron Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe were hits before the mega-hit of them all, Avengers. In order for this thing to gain any real traction they have to release at least one film before the Justice League movie and it has to be a hit. And for it to be a hit, it has to do two things:

1. Make people in the modern world more aware Wonder Woman, Flash, and the others exist.
2. Make them riveting by kicking lots of ass, have them LOOK cool, and have equally cool villains so people give a damn.

Superman isn't as cool as Iron Man or even Batman (something Man of Steel has to fix). And Batman just came out of one of the most successful runs of all time. People are going to have a hard time being sold another DIFFERENT Batman so soon, it's incredibly risky. Especially a Batman that may no longer be rooted to reality, who has to co-exist with lots of super beings. If Nolan's Batman was never made, it might've had a much better chance cause people wanted to forget Schumacher's Batman. Now we're being told to forget Nolan's Batman? Good luck with that one, Warner Bros.

All the key members in the Avengers had something awesome about them that made them cool and relevant in today's world. Even goofy motherfuckers like Cap. America and Thor were able to be retooled to work. I need to be proved wrong here and be convinced Flash and Wonder Woman can be awesome and interesting by themselves. If that can be done, then a Justice League movie will really give Avengers a run for its money.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Bluecast » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:01 pm

My mom only knows about flash because that CBS series in the early 90's my brother worked on. She has heard of Wonder Woman because of Linda Carter. So yeah maybe your right.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Riku Rose » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:02 pm

Not a comic guy but love the movies. I can't help but feel having Superman fight crime with Batman is going to look silly. I'm sure Mitts or OL can tell me why I'm wrong but Superman can literally walk though a wall and tap a guy to kill him while Batman has to be more smart about it. I just see it being like Hulk Hogan doing a tag team wrestling match where his partner is Stephen Fry.

Still WB are stupid as fuck to release it the same time as Avengers 2 for the reasons already mentioned.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby KiBa » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:28 pm

Bluecast wrote: Linda Carter


Who is, in fact, a half-English/Irish, half-Mexican/Spanish hybrid.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:45 pm

- Batman works well with Superman because they're polar opposites.
- Superman has some very cool moments. He even makes some of Batman's moments even cooler. Never used to like him, but you really warm up to him when he's written well (something that rarely happens outside comics)
- The Flash (Barry Allen version) is a forensic police detective, making his civilian identity very relevant in today's world.
- Cyborg is half-robot, so he'll easily fit in by default as a generic character.
- Green Lantern is a space cop... Nuff said.
- Aquaman's shit, Wonder Woman's shit (imo), but they're occasionally written well. They're both warrior/leader/generals of mythical civilisations, but only tend to work in specific situations.
- Green Arrow probably wouldn't be in it, but is very politically vocal, so would provide that kinda commentary.



...still reckon WB are likely to cock it up though, sadly...

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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Bluecast » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:53 pm

I'm no comics nerd so I will be flamed for this from Mitts maybe. Outside of Superman & Batman who gives a fuck about the rest in DC? Marvel has more interesting characters. Shame Whedon has no rights to include X Men or Spider-Man but still Thor,Hulk,Iron Man was enough for me in A.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Whilst it's true that DC's best are based in Gotham, there are plenty more B, C, and D-listers that are much more interesting. Swamp Thing, John Constantine, Captain Marvel, JSA, Teen Titans, the "other" Green Lanterns, Nemesis, The New Gods, the list could go on.

At the end of the day though, every DC character has a Marvel counterpart, and the same in reverse. I just prefer DC because the actual characterisation and stories are better. Plus, DC gets a lot of shit for having so many heroes in Gotham. Has anyone ever been able to count the number of Marvel's based in New York?

But yeah, Marvel's characters tend to translate onto screen much better, because DC don't really like to tamper with the whole concept of superheroes being God-like men dressed in tights, whereas Marvel characters' attire's much more varied. It's all in the presentation when it comes to live action, and that's where DC tend to fail (and one of the reasons we haven't seen grey suited Batman since the 60s)
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Sonikku » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:18 am

MiTT3NZ wrote: Plus, DC gets a lot of shit for having so many heroes in Gotham. Has anyone ever been able to count the number of Marvel's based in New York?


People have beef with there being a lot of heroes in Gotham? My gosh, if I lived in a shit hole as twisted as that, with all the villains and crazies on every square block just waiting to freeze me into an ice cube or tangle me up in crazy vines with minds of their own (I might like that, actually), you can be sure I'd want to get as many god damned heroes as I could damn well my hands on. :shock:

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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Bluecast » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:47 am

I think Bales Batman suit would still work as grey. Maybe a bit a darker grey. Keep the logo black and cowl gloves boots. I am glad they dropped the bulls eye on the chest
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby Kenny » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:08 am

Teen Titans would be pretty cool live action.
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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby OL » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:14 am

Bluecast wrote: I'm no comics nerd so I will be flamed for this from Mitts maybe. Outside of Superman & Batman who gives a fuck about the rest in DC? Marvel has more interesting characters.


Absolutely spoken like someone who knows nothing about DC (and, for that matter, Marvel) beyond the movies that have been made.
I haven't read any comics for a number of years now, but last I left off, DC was doing an incredible job of reinvigorating old characters without necessarily betraying their roots. Previously super-obscure ones like Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Guy Gardner, Ralph Dibny, and The Question are some of my absolute favorites now because of this.

Ironically, I've always perceived that Marvel is the more money-grubbing of the two (ironic because DC is owned by Warner Bros, so you'd think it was the other way around), while DC is more willing to stick to a certain "tradition" as far as superhero comics are concerned. Marvel thrives on controversy, shock value, and "pop" appeal, while DC tends to champion faithfulness to their characters' origins (they're guilty of shock value and attempts at mainstream appeal as well, but nowhere even near the efforts Marvel regularly goes to).
It's a very thin line to consider, but you could say that while DC adapts to the times, Marvel outright changes to fit the times.

This comparison is a little extreme, but as videogames develpers go, you could almost consider Marvel to be Capcom, while DC would be more along the lines of Falcom (not taking into account the size difference between the two, of course). It's not quite to that extreme, but that's the kind of difference I see between Marvel and DC. That's the difference in attitude and philosophy toward their medium that we're looking at.

And like Mitts said, DC doesn't mess with the fact that most of their superheroes are, essentially, God-like. Marvel has always tried to appeal to people with the "hey look, they're regular people like you!" approach to superhero characterization, while DC is essentially dealing with completely unrealistic Greek God-styled heroes, which makes it harder for some people to swallow.
Just my own personal preference, but a superhero grappling with alcoholism or a rocky marriage is far less interesting to me than a universe-patrolling law-enforcement army, or a character who moves so fast that he fears eventually getting stuck between miliseconds.
When it comes to superheroes, I'll take the fantastical over the mundane any day.

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Re: 2015: Justice League VS Avengers 2

Postby RyoHazuki84 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:18 am

Being a comic book fan runs in my family. My father was born and grew up during the silver age of comics and a family friend lived through the golden age so these movies really mean a lot to us at some capacity. Hell, this elderly family friend still collects action figures and still has some old Timely comics memorbilia. I respect all comic companies and try to give them all a shot. If they make a movie of them, I look forward to seeing how they are done because the movies were the kind I wanted to see when I was a child, especially Spider-Man, X-Men, and The Avengers.

DC has some other cool characters as well like Captain Marvel, Green Arrow, The Question, The Sandman, John Stewart Green Lantern, Steel, Martian Manhunter, and the mother fucking main man, Lobo. Lobo needs his movie dammit!!! Lobo, in the right hands, can be a very excellent movie, but I am scared that some schmo will ruin it and make Ghost Rider look as epic as Citizen Kane. There is a fan movie of Lobo on youtube and I enjoyed it personally. The Question is a really awesome character himself.

I don't think obscurity at all will hurt them. It is all about talent and the right way to appeal it. The Mask was based off a Dark Horse comic and it helped establish Jim Carrey's career. The Crow was also based off a comic and I think it would have still been a success regardless of Brandon Lee's unfortunate passing. Men In Black was based on a comic book as well. I will admit that The Mask and Men in Black were not exactly faithful adaptations to their respective source materials, but they got the job done in their own creative ways. Sin City was based on a comic as well. How much of the mainstream ever read or was aware of the original comic before watching the movie? Hellboy isn't from a big name company and his movies were really excellent. Dredd could have been a bigger success if it weren't for the stigma of the Stallone movie.

DC, though their flagship characters are Superman and Batman have a great stack of characters that can be appealing to audiences. Hell, I hope a new set of Batman movies will use Deadshot, Hush, Blackmask, and Hugo Strange. They are just as good as villains as the more mainstream ones like Joker and Catwoman. It is all about the right people making these movies which was unforunate with Green Lantern and Jonah Hex.......and the Halle Berry Catwoman and the Shaq Steel movies........ If Hollywood would hire me and my brother and some of our friends and gave us the right money, I promise you we would make GREAT DC movies, but we don't have the connections to pull that off lol.

But I can see where other comparisons come into play between Marvel and DC. Yes, Marvel's appeal is that they try to make their characters relate to the audience. Stan Lee or some other big name at Marvel said that DC's characters are more like people who are trying to be like the parents while Marvel is trying to be like the kids.

As for the Justice League movie, yes, I agree that DC and Warner Bros. are failing to see why Avengers was a success due to its progressive and timely build up. But with just making a movie to compete with Avengers 2 really mean anything? I do not know. We just have to wait and find out. If Bruce Timm and Paul Dini are on board to some capacity as creative consultants as well as other respective DC figures who know their shit, then yeah, I think this movie deserves a fair shot. I look forward to more news on what to expect.

Well, it is not just DC, but I would like to see other comic titles adapted to the big screen as well. I would love to see Savage Dragon. I loved him as a kid as well as WildCATS. It would make me 10 years old all over again. I thought Spawn was ok, but I loved Michael Jai White in the role, but I hope they do a new Spawn movie in teh future and really show how awesome he can be.
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