Random Thoughts

(Discuss literally anything here including introductions)

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby OL » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:41 pm

Okay, this is totally random, but it irritates me to no end.
Why is it that in almost every mainstream, France-based period film, the filmmakers always see fit to make the cast speak with British accents? Seriously, is there some explanation for this? Was there some point in entertainment history where a movie featuring French accents just did so badly that everyone thereafter decided to give French characters English accents? Is there something I'm missing?
I watched that movie Hugo the other week. I'm not a huge Scorcese fan, but I was interested in this particular flick because it seemed like he actually did something interesting with the visuals and the style of it. And indeed, it's a great movie on a technical level. But for the love of fuck, why does everyone have to sound English? For that matter, why is almost every actor in the movie English in origin? Even background characters with almost no speaking parts were cast with Brit actors, even though they could have had anyone in the same roles and the results would be the same, since their parts are completely visual. Hell, you've even got Chloe Grace Moretz in the movie -- an American actress -- faking an amazing English accent. Seriously, she doesn't a brilliant job of it for such a young girl. But if she's so good at faking an accent... why didn't they just have her fake a French one, and add at least some bit of authenticity to it? It makes no sense whatsoever to have an American actress play a French character while faking an English accent.
And that's not the only example. I have no interest in it since it's based on a shitty Broadway musical, but I was flipping through the channels and found the most recent version of Les Miserables the other day, and it was the same case exactly. It's awfully distracting to see a bunch of French revolutionaries standing off against soldiers while a little kid sings a song in front of them in the absolute Cockney-est Cockney accent he can possibly pull off. Of course, every single other cast member is trying their damnedest to sound anything other than French as well, with even Hugh Jackman fighting against his natural Aussie accent to sound like an aristocratic Brit.
In France.
During the French Revolution.
At a time when England and France had recently been fighting wars against each other, making the presence of these accents seem absolutely retarded. #-o
And of course the list goes on. Practically any version of the Three Musketeers you find will be replete with British accents, as will any version of the Count of Monte Cristo. I absolutely love the early-2000s version of the latter, but that's always been a point of distraction for me.
And yeah, sure, if one were so concerned with "authenticity," then actually having them speak French would be the way to go. But I understand that foreign-language films don't fly so well in the mainstream, so I wouldn't expect that. However, in lieu of the language itself, why does everyone always avoid the accent?
And that brings me to the instance that bothers me the most: Assassin's Creed Unity.
The more I see of it, the more I'm coming around to it and wanting to get excited for it. It looks like a brilliant game. But why did they insist on giving everyone in the French Revolution a British accent? This is a series that already has a great reputation for maintaining some level of authenticity in its vocal performances. Aside from Altair, most people in the first game actually did have some kind of Middle Eastern accent, while obviously everyone in the Ezio games spoke with the proper accent depending on their characters; Italians sounded Italian, Spaniards sounded Spanish, Turks sound Turkish, etc. Hell, there are even French characters in Brotherhood who speak with the proper accents... so why was that not carried over to Unity? I mean, shit, there's even an inherent level of charm that comes from giving a character the accent of one of the Romantic Languages; Ezio himself wouldn't have been quite as compelling if Roger Craig Smith hadn't done such an amazing job with the Italian accent. To an American set of ears, an accent like that makes a character seem even more roguish, even more charismatic. So why skip that potential for this game? They've essentially stripped Arno of an aspect that could have made him one of the more popular protagonists in the series, alongside Ezio.
All things considered I'm sure I'll enjoy the game anyway, but the accents are going to be distracting as fuck. They make no sense. And ever since I realized that this is such a widespread thing, I just can't help the fact that it gets under my skin so bad.
It's even worse when you consider the fact that these games are primarily made in Canada, where French is the fucking national language right alongside English. There is no excuse after you think of it like that.
Seriously, what the eff.
User avatar
OL
Yo jes hummilated yoursef
Shenmue III
 
Joined: May 2003

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby lavrentis » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:00 pm

cause english accents are cool
User avatar
lavrentis
Shenmue - THE best game
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: January 2009
Location: Tokyo
Favorite title: Shenmue

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby Axm » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:53 pm

I also thought it was annoying too OL. In Hugo and Les Miserables. I cant remember a movie set exclusively in France that featured exclusively French accents except for movies with a French role in another country such as with Matrix Reloaded.
Inglorious Bastards did a good job of casting, but they better because its WW2 and how else would you easily distinguish between the Americans, British and Germans.

Also seems like someones excited for Assasins Creed Unity eh?
I have to admit I want to play it. I just wont do so until its cheaper and my hands are pulled away from Master Cheif Collection.

Axm has received a thanks from: OL
User avatar
Axm
#SaveShenmueHD
News Poster
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby OL » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:32 pm

Axm wrote:Also seems like someones excited for Assasins Creed Unity eh?


Yeah, at first I was a bit wary, specifically because I find the French Revolution to be a particularly reprehensible part of "civilized" western culture. People romanticize it, but I didn't like the idea of playing an Assassin on the side of a crazed mob shouting for the death of any and every aristocrat possible just because they're the "haves" as opposed to the "have nots." That seemed like the cliche part you'd be playing in it.
But then I saw a sort of "behind the game" segment recently where the directors made reference to the revolution as being split between "crazy people who want to cut off everyone's heads, and crazy people who only want to cut off some people's heads," and explained that it's only the backdrop for the real story, which is more focused on Arno, rather than on the revolution itself. They made it sound as if the Assassins and Templars aren't necessarily on one side or the other, but rather are trying to figure out what they should do amidst the chaos. So knowing all that, I'm a bit more hyped for it now, especially seeing how different the combat and stealth is (just found out there are no more instant counter-kills, which is a huuuuge change). And goddamn if that recreation of Paris isn't one of the most impressive I've seen in an open-world game.
And even though this isn't the topic for it, on the same subject I'll probably be playing Rogue very soon. I know it just recycles technical content, and that turned most off, but the recent story trailer hyped me up for it quite a bit, just because the narrative looks great. I hadn't thought about it before, but in ACIV, the Assassins were growing, while in AC3 (which is set later in history) they're all but wiped out. Despite the reused materials, I'm excited for Rogue because it takes place between the two, and shows how the Assassins end up getting demolished. Thought that was an interesting point of note.

OL has received a thanks from: Axm
User avatar
OL
Yo jes hummilated yoursef
Shenmue III
 
Joined: May 2003

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby Axm » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:55 pm

I agree about the French Revolution and how it was over romanticized. I think that way about most revolutions, especially the Cuban Revolution where basically anyone with a private business or land was seized by the government all while anyone in open opposition were jailed or killed by firing squad.

Like members of my family who lost their business, lost their land and home, left to America with nothing because all their money was taken for leaving the country. And the currency was massively depreciated anyways too.

Hope ACU covers both sides of the story.
User avatar
Axm
#SaveShenmueHD
News Poster
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby Axm » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:17 am

Image

Axm has received a thanks from: Raithos
User avatar
Axm
#SaveShenmueHD
News Poster
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:14 pm

mue 26 wrote: Also, sorry if I came off a little hostile. I really didn't intend to. But I will gladly tell animegamer to piss off if he accuses me of being a troll again, and tell SEF to fuck off if he accuses me of being a self hating white middle class man again. Night. Love ya'll



You DO post like a hand-wringer though sometimes, so maybe I "didn't know anything about you" enough, to get the "white Brit" part wrong, but the way you post tells us all quite enough. Because multiple times I have read threads where you will take whichever side is different from us "privileged" Westerners. This is just the latest in a string, where since most of the protagonists are already "privileged", you have to narrow it down to a different gender instead. When we don't agree, you get violent and shouty about it, like this topic earlier...
The way you throw your opinions out there with a lot of brute force doesn't help things, I can kinda understand why, but this forum isn't like the rest of the internet, the rest of the internet is full of mouth-breathers who think how their chosen media tells them to, and likes to conform to mob-rule. We're not like that here, this is one of the very few places on the internet where the majority of people who post are smart enough to have independent thoughts and alternative viewpoints on things, so that kind of tone is just not needed.

On topic of the subject, society has its own evolution and will eventually do what it has to do. Trying to speed it up by being radical about it doesn't usually help things. TBH I just think that Sarkeesian lady is interested in Youtube hits so is following the tried and tested "controversy" path to gain some attention, along with jumping on the coat-tails of gamergate (and it worked, 'cos I hadn't even heard of her until I read you mention her, which led me to that #gamergate article on Forbes.)
Also, nature is cruel and through all of nature, the strong do tend to prey on the weak. We humans are mostly past fearing nature, but that particular part of nature is quite a glaringly obvious one in the world today. The weak are still the prey of the strong, games and media like to remind us of this concept quite a lot. A fucking terrible looking brothel is just a tiny little part of that. It happens in real life too, sadly (where the "weak" are women/slaves from another country, and the "strong" are the (yes, mostly male) vicious and well armed gangs/militias with the fucking terrible looking brothels. And so it goes all the way up, until you get to the biggest bullies (entire countries/continents) being unfair to smaller ones...)

St. Elmo's Fire has received 3 thanks from: Calshot, MiTT3NZ, OL
User avatar
St. Elmo's Fire
None.
Shenmue III
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: UK

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby MiTT3NZ » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:43 pm

Sometimes I think that SEF's the only out n out "normal" person on here.
User avatar
MiTT3NZ
Class A Cunt
Shenmue III
 
Joined: January 2005
Location: Manchester, innit!
XBL: Mittens2317
Steam: Mittens2317
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Football Manager 2012

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby mue 26 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:27 am

You DO post like a hand-wringer though sometimes, so maybe I "didn't know anything about you" enough, to get the "white Brit" part wrong, but the way you post tells us all quite enough. Because multiple times I have read threads where you will take whichever side is different from us "privileged" Westerners. This is just the latest in a string, where since most of the protagonists are already "privileged", you have to narrow it down to a different gender instead. When we don't agree, you get violent and shouty about it, like this topic earlier...
The way you throw your opinions out there with a lot of brute force doesn't help things, I can kinda understand why, but this forum isn't like the rest of the internet, the rest of the internet is full of mouth-breathers who think how their chosen media tells them to, and likes to conform to mob-rule. We're not like that here, this is one of the very few places on the internet where the majority of people who post are smart enough to have independent thoughts and alternative viewpoints on things, so that kind of tone is just not needed.


Violent and shouty? Reading back my previous post, the only place where I think I can be accused of that is in the first line of my reply to Raithos (the "you showed me. NOT" bit), so if you (or indeed Raithos) found that to be needlessly offensive than accept my apologies. But nowhere else was I shouty and certainly not "violent", aside from telling you or animegamer to piss off, and I think I was pretty justified in that. Feel free to quote any part where you feel I was "violent or shouty" though. My tone was pretty incredulous, but that's because I felt incredulous about what was being said in here, and I'll expand on why I felt that way in a bit.
But here you go banging on about this "hand-ringing" crap again. I have different opinions from you on many things, SEF. I identify as a feminist, I liked Nelson Mandela (can't remember from that thread if you didn't like him or not, but I'm going to assume you didn't, since you like making plenty of assumptions about me) and I think Thatcher was one of the worst things to ever happen to this country. But I would appreciate it if you could attack my actual arguments themselves, instead of trying to denigrate me because I'm a dirty lefty white middle class self hater who always takes the side of whiny marginalized peoples. This is exactly what your tone is SEF, what you are doing is trying to belittle me, and essentially telling me not to air my opinions because they are different from yours and probably the majority of this forum. So, I am actually sorry for calling you a boring stoner, but I hope you can now reflect and understand why I did so.

As for my incredulous tone, it was because no one on here, aside from OL and SC, made any real criticisms about her videos. Most people were just going on about her being a sexist, or wanting censorship, or once having said she's not a gamer, without actually being able to factually criticize her much hated videos themselves. And they aren't perfect and can be criticized in a real way, but I didn't see any that. I think OL and SC did raise some interesting criticisms, but I just happened to disagree that they were particularly relevant criticisms and so I replied accordingly, and in no way disrespectfully.

Trying to speed it up by being radical about it doesn't usually help things.


Spoken like a true Thatcherite ;-) Seriously though, I wouldn't exactly call what Sarkeesian has done to be radical. She's hardly calling for burning and looting and shooting. She's just put a pretty tame feminist video series on YT. If that's too radical for you, then I have no idea what isn't, aside from doing nothing at all.


TBH I just think that Sarkeesian lady is interested in Youtube hits so is following the tried and tested "controversy" path to gain some attention, along with jumping on the coat-tails of gamergate


:???: How has she jumped on the coat-tails of gamergate? They, almost literally, jumped on her.

Also, nature is cruel and through all of nature, the strong do tend to prey on the weak. We humans are mostly past fearing nature, but that particular part of nature is quite a glaringly obvious one in the world today. The weak are still the prey of the strong, games and media like to remind us of this concept quite a lot. A fucking terrible looking brothel is just a tiny little part of that. It happens in real life too, sadly (where the "weak" are women/slaves from another country, and the "strong" are the (yes, mostly male) vicious and well armed gangs/militias with the fucking terrible looking brothels. And so it goes all the way up, until you get to the biggest bullies (entire countries/continents) being unfair to smaller ones...)


I'm sorry but I don't understand how this justifies the use of sexist tropes? As I already mentioned, it's not the portraying of brothels or prostitutes that I or anyone else inherently have an issue with. It's the fact that these women are always two dimensional card board cut out props for sex and violence. I would actually welcome a game that dared to tell a true to life harrowing tale of woman in sex trade, or just portray these women in a real and humane way.
Last edited by mue 26 on Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

mue 26 has received a thanks from: Yukupo
User avatar
mue 26
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: December 2009

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:29 am

Shut up mue.
User avatar
MiTT3NZ
Class A Cunt
Shenmue III
 
Joined: January 2005
Location: Manchester, innit!
XBL: Mittens2317
Steam: Mittens2317
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Football Manager 2012

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby mue 26 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:41 am

Piss off.
User avatar
mue 26
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: December 2009

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby Ziming » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:13 am

mue 26 wrote:
TBH I just think that Sarkeesian lady is interested in Youtube hits so is following the tried and tested "controversy" path to gain some attention, along with jumping on the coat-tails of gamergate


:???: How has she jumped on the coat-tails of gamergate? They, almost literally, jumped on her.


Image

phpBB [video]
User avatar
Ziming
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: November 2003

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby OL » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:38 am

That picture reminds me of the running of the Jews.

Image

OL has received a thanks from: Rakim
User avatar
OL
Yo jes hummilated yoursef
Shenmue III
 
Joined: May 2003

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby ys » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:31 pm

mue 26 wrote:But I would appreciate it if you could attack my actual arguments themselves, instead of trying to denigrate me because I'm a dirty lefty white middle class self hater who always takes the side of whiny marginalized peoples.
...
As I already mentioned, it's not the portraying of brothels or prostitutes that I or anyone else inherently have an issue with. It's the fact that these women are always two dimensional card board cut out props for sex and violence. I would actually welcome a game that dared to tell a true to life harrowing tale of woman in sex trade, or just portray these women in a real and humane way.

SEF has a point though. Sometimes it seems as if you automatically blame "the white man". I'm not saying that it is that way.

But I kind of agree with your last statement. It would be interesting to see something more complex. On the other hand, how many characters are portrayed in a "real" way in entertainment? And from what I've read, stereotypes are sometimes used as a storytelling tool since the audience "gets" the character faster without a lot of extra exposition.
By the way, in the spirit of "gender" issues it could also be the tale of a man I guess? Since they're an ignored significant part of sex workers ;)

Just this week some gaming articles here talked about Sarkeesian and the whole debate. One of them opened with : "Does anyone remember when games were just about fun?"
Another talked about a female reviewer who deducted points from a Lego-game due to gender issues. Some found that it was ok since reviews are subjective anyway. Others found that journalists should at least strive to be as objective as possible and not throw in personal preconceptions or politics.
Personally I'm in the latter camp. In general I do get that cultural norms can be obstacles but it gets a bit pathetic when inconsequential things get blown out of proportion followed by nagging on Twitter and Facebook.

As someone once said : if you don't like the situation, go to university, endure demanding courses in computer science, math or physics and then create your own games. Just complaining on social media won't change a lot.
User avatar
ys
"Keep Friends"
"Keep Friends"
 
Joined: June 2003
Location: VL/SE
Favorite title: What's Shenmue

Re: Random Thoughts

Postby Kenny » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:25 pm

I want to make a valuable contribution to the conversation and mention that Anita Sarkeesian has pretty nice tits:

phpBB [video]


ALL HAIL THE PATRIARCHY!

Kenny has received a thanks from: Raithos
User avatar
Kenny
is Gwenpool™
Shenmue III
 
Joined: November 2004
Location: Somewhere
PSN: JamesTeeZappa
XBL: KennyNOL
Nintendo FC: FUCK THE WII-U
Steam: kenny_nol
Favorite title: What's Shenmue
Currently playing: Contest of Champions iOS

PreviousNext

Return to Off Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000-
ShenmueDojo.net