Could Niao Sun be Ryo's Mother (highly unlikely)

[KX-5]

Hello all,

I've lurked the dojo since about 2003 or so and this is my first time joining and posting ever, mainly because I have been on an INSANE Shenmue kick lately, especially with how often it's been in the news the last couple of years. I apologize in advance if I'm breaking some type of forum rules or anything with this post/hair brained theory of mine, it's just something that has been on my mind since I have been playing the games a lot as of late and have noticed a lot more since the last time I played.

Please bear with me with this idea of mine, especially since there is basically no evidence backing it up but I'm curious to see the opinions of others regarding all of this.

To begin I find it INCREDIBLY peculiar that we have never seen ANYTHING regarding Ryo's mother, it is only barely mentioned in passing that she died when Ryo was about 3 years old due to some type of illness, we don't even know her name. The closest thing we have to some type of evidence that she existed is the comb that is found in the basement of the Hazuki Dojo (Ryo remarks "It's beautiful, could it have belonged to my mother") but no other mention of her than that. There aren't even any pictures of her or anything (mind you there is only one picture of Iwao in the entire game but we don't need proof that Iwao exists). In short Ryo's mother is essentially a ghost, we have no evidence that she ever existed.

With all of the secrets that Iwao brought back with him from China (The Mirrors, the death of Sun Ming Zhao, constructing the basement to keep the Phoenix Mirror safe etc.) its entirely possible that Iwao could have been hiding things from Ryo regarding his mother as well. Let's take a look into Iwao's past for a moment, at least what we know about his own journey to China. Iwao was 46 at the time of his death by the hands of Lan Di. When we encounter Kai in Shenmue 2 (the old "blind" man) he mentions that Iwao came to China 20 years ago, which would make Iwao 26 at the time of his journey. Who's to say he didn't encounter a woman at some point during his training (perhaps even a friend of Sun Ming Zhao) and it turns out to be Niao Sun. They all train and hang out for a while, Niao and Iwao fall for each other, Zhao does something with the mirrors and Iwao is forced to stop him, unfortunately killing him in the process, Iwao heads home to Japan taking the mirrors with him and Niao Sun comes with him to Japan.

Now, Ryo is born two years after Iwao's journey to China when he is 28 years of age. As stated Ryo's mother died when he was 3 years of age making Iwao 31 years old at the time of her death (sorry if me being too specific with ages is annoying, mainly just trying to get everything I'm thinking onto paper). But who's to say it's not much deeper than that.

Consider this option with an open mind (again just ideas and theories). Niao and Iwao have a happy few years, putting their past in China aside and raise baby Ryo all happily and whatnot. Perhaps Niao unites the mirrors one day out of curiosity of what Zhao experienced and Iwao is forced to confront someone he cares for once more (Note: I'm not trying to suggest any mirror theories or anything like that, there are more than enough of them and all are pretty interesting ideas IMO, just noting that the mirrors are very important). After Niao is stopped Iwao demands she leaves Japan at once for endangering their son, perhaps she always worked for the Chi You Men and had to earn Iwao's trust to obtain the mirrors, perhaps she was even turned evil after interacting with the mirrors (this is where things fall apart a bit as its difficult to suggest why things would fall apart/into place like this, so if I sound retarded I apologize). In an effort to protect both Ryo and the mirrors Iwao has the basement hidden away, storing the mirror and various other things regarding his past, gets rid of anything involving Niao (pictures, clothing, possessions etc) yet keeps her comb as a reminder of the woman he loved, tells Ryo his mother has died (let's keep in mind Ryo is only 3 years old at this time so he probably wouldn't know better, perhaps Iwao just had a fake gravesite, who knows (too elaborate for a lie I know)). Iwao hires Ine-san at this time as a live-in housekeeper/motherly figure to Ryo (It's stated that Ine-san has been the Hazuki housekeeper since Ryo was 3 years of age, or right after his mother died) so Ine-san would not know anything about Ryo's mother save for Iwao telling her she died of illness. Fuku-san moves into the Hazuki house when he is 16 years old making Ryo 8 at the time. Again, yet another person that would know nothing about Ryo's mother save for whatever Iwao or Ryo told him. This all leaves Iwao as the only person who knows that Ryo's mother is alive and well, perhaps even knowing she is one of the four leaders of the Chi You Men and they will be coming for the mirrors someday.

Now at this point you're probably bored of reading this nonsense but I still have a bit more to go, so thank you to anyone still reading I suppose XD.

Now you're probably thinking Niao Sun looks FAR too young to have an 18 year old son, she looks like she would be around the same age as Xiuying, Zi Ming and Lan Di. Either mid to late twenties and no older than early thirties and I couldn't agree more. There is always the possibility she could have been in her early twenties when she gave birth to Ryo or she could always just look damn good for her age, I mean Iwao certainly didn't look bad for pushing 50 so who knows. But something that is always pointed out regarding Niao Sun's traits is that she is considered VERY beautiful and alluring as stated in her character trailer from the pre dreamcast launch. The only real memory Ryo has stated he has of his mother is that he remembers she was very beautiful as he told Shenhua when they were chatting in the cave in Shenmue 2. Why am I bringing up Niao Sun's beauty you ask? Well I believe IF she were Ryo's mother and was possibly around the same age as Iwao at the time of his death give or take a few years it could POSSIBLY have something to do with the Elixir of Eternal Youth.

Now as most of us recall Ryo finds a small vial in the Hazuki basement known as the Elixir of Eternal Youth, remarking he remembers his father telling him about how it was used by martial arts experts in China, though for what reason has yet to be revealed. Now I can't recall if this is a fact that has been stated or just a theory so bear with me, but in the default file for Shenmue 2 one of the items Ryo has with him is the white leaf. Now it has been either stated or theorized (can't recall which) that this white leaf has had the Elixir of Eternal Youth used on it and that is the reason why it has not crumbled and broken apart after 20 years (I believe it was said that Iwao brought the leaf back with him from China so that fits into our timeline). Let's be honest, we've all seen the Shenmue Online and Project Berkley trailers, we know Shenmue WILL get mystical in some way, so saying someone who is in their 40's or so having a very youthful appearance thanks to some type of Elixir isn't totally outside of the realm of possibilities. Perhaps Ryo would encounter someone who recognizes the leaf has had the Elixir used on it (perhaps the maker of it) and remarks on how one of the four leaders of the Chi You Men is renowned for her beauty and believes it is thanks to this Elixir, leading Ryo to his first run in with one of the leaders of the Chi You Men and perhaps his mother.

This isn't a very solid theory by any means and it only has so much flexibility due to the fact that we know next to nothing about Niao Sun or the remaining remembers of the Chi You Men save for Lan Di whom we still know little about to this day. It's entirely possible that she, like Lan Di and Zi Ming had people she loved that were murdered and sought out the Chi You Men in order to take revenge on those that killed the people she loved, just like Lan Di and Zi Ming had done before her. Hell she could just be some psychotic deranged lunatic that only serves as an obstacle in Ryo's path (though I hope they don't go down that route with her character by any means being the enigma that she is).

I dunno guys, what are your opinions on this? Am I just putting nonsense together and trying to see things that aren't there? Interesting idea perhaps? Or do I just sound like I'm blowing fan fiction out of my ass :p?

Let's discuss

[ys]

First of all, welcome. From the length of your post it almost seems like you have been hatching that idea since you started lurking here! ;)

I went through it and I find it an interesting idea actually. You really went through lots of details.
As far as I remember some people did indeed come up with the hypothesis regarding the leaf and the elixir. About her age, for some reason I always perceived her as older than what you guessed actually. Maybe it was because of the more mysterious vibe around here?

[AnimeGamer183]

Hmm... maybe, but if she is, MILF!!!

[KX-5]

First of all, welcome. From the length of your post it almost seems like you have been hatching that idea since you started lurking here! ;)

I went through it and I find it an interesting idea actually. You really went through lots of details.
As far as I remember some people did indeed come up with the hypothesis regarding the leaf and the elixir. About her age, for some reason I always perceived her as older than what you guessed actually. Maybe it was because of the more mysterious vibe around here?

Lol thank you for the greetings and compliment ys. I must say I wasn't expecting an old schooler like you to reply to this O.o. And 10 years to develop a theory like this is certainly a bit overkill in my opinion, I've only really thought of it over the last month or so truthfully. I just try to be as detailed as possible when it comes to forum stuff <.< I've always been fascinated with Niao Sun just because we don't really know anything about her, plus I love her character design.

As far as ages are concerned with Shenmue characters they have an odd habit of making characters not look their age. I remember when I learned Xiuying was only 26 and Gui Zhang was close to 30 I was like wtf O.o. At this point they could tell us Niao Sun is like 22 and I would just say "Ok whatever you guys say, its your vision"

[KX-5]

Hmm... maybe, but if she is, MILF!!!

Haha for sure, she's certainly more attractive and less intimidating than Xiuying....for now anyways :p

[johnvivant]

interesting theory.

i always imagined Ryo's mothers being a very kind and gentle person, the complete opposite of someone like niao sun who is supposed to be ruthless and cruel, but maybe something happened which corrupted her.

my personal thoeory is that Niao sun will have a crush on Ryo when she meets him, or maybe after she witnesses his fighting prowess. She is the kind of person who is attracted by strength and power and she will see the great potential Ryo has to become a very powerful person. She will want to corrupt his heart and influence him to overthrow the other Chiyoumen leaders and Tentei, then she will be queen and ryo king as it were.

Ryo won't go along with it however and she is forced to battle him - but ultimately ryo is victorious. or maybe shenhua or xiuying battles her, and the winner becomes the person that ryo really loves.

i think she is modelled after the character Eva Durricks from the virtua fighter animation. that charcter is very cruel and deceptive, and ultimately just wants strength and power. she eventually betrays her leader (fogot his name, the guy that looks like gui zhang)

it will be interesting to see her relationship with lan di. i think she probably admires him, but won't hesitate to betray him when she encounters someone stronger.

is the orchestral soundtrack niao sun has a image of ryo reflected in her eye, just like Nozomi does. is think niao sun has great interest in ryo. hopefully one day we will find out.

i love the idea that she might be a ancient person who is made young by the elixer. in the future game i think that there might be other ancient characters being kept young with the elixer. especially tentei.

[shengoro86]

Great theory! The only thing that bothers me is that Suzuki said that Ryo's mother would only be a mental reminder to Ryo in the series. Unless Yu is hiding something or merely playing on Ryo's thoughts of who his mother is, I would say its safe to bet that she really is dead.

[elfshadowreaper]

I always took his mother's absence as a way for him to easily accept the quest for revenge. If his mother were there he would feel more obligated to take care of her in his father's absence. And if he decided on the path of revenge or at least justice his mother would likely try to talk him out of it.

[nskachu]

You actually had me from the moment you mentioned the elixire but then I thought about what Shengoro said. All in all I still like your theory. If just there were more pieces of evidence..

[KX-5]

interesting theory.

i always imagined Ryo's mothers being a very kind and gentle person, the complete opposite of someone like niao sun who is supposed to be ruthless and cruel, but maybe something happened which corrupted her.

my personal thoeory is that Niao sun will have a crush on Ryo when she meets him, or maybe after she witnesses his fighting prowess. She is the kind of person who is attracted by strength and power and she will see the great potential Ryo has to become a very powerful person. She will want to corrupt his heart and influence him to overthrow the other Chiyoumen leaders and Tentei, then she will be queen and ryo king as it were.

Ryo won't go along with it however and she is forced to battle him - but ultimately ryo is victorious. or maybe shenhua or xiuying battles her, and the winner becomes the person that ryo really loves.

i think she is modelled after the character Eva Durricks from the virtua fighter animation. that charcter is very cruel and deceptive, and ultimately just wants strength and power. she eventually betrays her leader (fogot his name, the guy that looks like gui zhang)

it will be interesting to see her relationship with lan di. i think she probably admires him, but won't hesitate to betray him when she encounters someone stronger.

is the orchestral soundtrack niao sun has a image of ryo reflected in her eye, just like Nozomi does. is think niao sun has great interest in ryo. hopefully one day we will find out.

i love the idea that she might be a ancient person who is made young by the elixer. in the future game i think that there might be other ancient characters being kept young with the elixer. especially tentei.

Your theory isn't bad either. It's certainly more likely your scenario will be valid before mine. I personally don't see her having a joy-like crush with Ryo by any means just because of how cruel she is supposed to be, I think it would take away from the character. But I have no doubt she will be fascinated by him in some sense, perhaps a "I cant wait to see your body bleed while I torture you" kind of deal as creepy as that may sound <.<. But lets be honest here, there are some REAL weirdos in our beloved series *cough* Yuan *cough*.

I think she could no doubt admire Lan Di just for his propensity of being cruel and merciless. It's funny that you bring up the cover of the orchestral soundtrack. I just made that picture the background on my computer and noticed Ryo is reflected in her eyes. She will no doubt find Ryo VERY interesting for some reason.

[KX-5]

Great theory! The only thing that bothers me is that Suzuki said that Ryo's mother would only be a mental reminder to Ryo in the series. Unless Yu is hiding something or merely playing on Ryo's thoughts of who his mother is, I would say its safe to bet that she really is dead.

Thank you for the kind words sir. I completely agree that she's high more likely to be dead dead than alive. It's just started to bug me that for a game as detailed as Shenmue, it's very odd to present so many details with the story and memories of the main characters past that we have no mention of his mother other than she's dead. Maybe they just scraped his mother in favor of Ine-san for some reason, who knows really :p

[KX-5]

I always took his mother's absence as a way for him to easily accept the quest for revenge. If his mother were there he would feel more obligated to take care of her in his father's absence. And if he decided on the path of revenge or at least justice his mother would likely try to talk him out of it.

That's a very valid point. But he was still faced with those same scenarios you just mentioned with Ine-san, especially with Ine-san being his only real motherly figure in life. Why create an entirely different character to fill the same role his mother could have? It would have made more sense to keep his mother around, swapping the role for his mother to Ine-san doesn't make the scenarios in question any more or less relate able.

[KX-5]

You actually had me from the moment you mentioned the elixire but then I thought about what Shengoro said. All in all I still like your theory. If just there were more pieces of evidence..

Haha well thank you. It really is too bad there aren't many details we know about Niao Sun, I'm surprised of how much I was able to pull together without sounding like a complete loon. It's just a fun idea to mess around with more than anything :p

[KX-5]

I'm really liking what you guys have to say about Niao Sun and all of this, good stuff indeedly

[we420]

Excellent theory.. Would be insane if this were true

Niao Sun: "Ryo, I am your mother."
Ryo: "That's not true. That's impossible!"