Fighting Mechanics: Let's discuss

[ShenBlue92]

I have expressed my opinions in another topic, but I think this matter deserves its own place of discussion, maybe Yu Suzuki and the development team might take a look at our suggestions.

I've been thinking about the fighting system, and how could it be implemented in Shenmue's sequel.

In the first two games the fights 1 vs 1 were really solid, the Virtua Fighter imprinting was really fitting, but when it comes to fronting multiple enemies at once, the gameplay suffered a bit (even though S II slightly improved things , if u don't consider the first person view which I found quite bad).

I believe Shenmue needs to retain its Virtua Fighter core: the series is all about martial arts , and I'd like the mechanics to have a considerable depth in them. That being said, for this game to be able to appeal to a wider audience it also needs a fluid gameplay concerning brawls and fights with multiple enemies.

my idea was to split the fighting in 2 branches, so to speak, 2 fighting mechanics that are of course related to each other:

- 1 Fighting mechanic would be for 1 vs 1. This would be the most important one, and it should be used when Ryo has to face MARTIAL ARTS MASTERS or SKILLED FIGHTERS like him. This particular fight mechanic could be a natural upgrade from the Shenmue 2 one. I'd also like to see it used for Ryo's hard training during the whole game: we have to remember that our boy is really far from being able to stand a chance against Lan Di, and he surely needs to be trained. I can see things like upgrading stats, learning new moves and so on...

- the other fighting mechanic should be implemented when it comes to facing multiple opponents, like thugs and lesser fighters. I'd keep the same interface and button setting ( Punches, Kicks, Throws and Dodge Inputs), but it should be translated into a little less skilled system and a little more action oriented one, taking some inspirations from games like Yakuza and Batman Arkham, with A LOT LESS focus on exaggeration and a lot more realism. QTE should be present to make things more interesting and exciting, Shenmue 2 balanced them very well for instance.

These of course are ideas from someone who is not into developing at all, I'm just a passionate fan hoping to share points of view with you all.

[BayStone]

Not a bad idea... would definitely work. Especially if the multi-opponent system involved weapons and whatnot. In some ways I would prefer to have just that than the usual VF system.

Now, that said, this is Shenmue, so to not have that VF system would be just wrong, I think. There's also two systems going on that idea and the player would have to get used to that. Personally, I think it would be better to only have one. The skills the player learns should be applied to all aspects of combat - one, multiple or QTE (edit: this is usually the case where other games that do QTEs mess up) in always the same way.

This is also important when it comes to the usual master-student teaching situations.

[shredingskin]

Some enviromental damage/weapons would be cool.

Also it would be nice if Shenmue had online VS battle system or something like that, that would get the juices going.

[Your Boy Leroy]

It's interesting that you mention branching the fighting system into two different systems. I think it's a great idea, especially considering that there are many games where the fighting systems, although meant for both one-on-one and one-vs-many fights, are really good at handling one or the other and not both. Sleeping Dogs was great for multiple opponent fights, but I found one-on-one to be lacking. The same goes for the Arkham Asylum games (and don't get me started on Jet Li's Rise to Honor for PS2).

Personally, I found the most satisfying fighting engines (for an action/brawler game) came from The Warriors (for PS2) and the Yakuza series (Yakuza 0 especially). I think Yakuza 0 comes extremely close to being my ideal brawling engine, although I wish it did have the kind of depth that the Shenmue engine had. The engines from Sleeping Dogs and the Arkham games are great because they convey a cinematic fight scene, but I've always wished for a bit more interactivity with those.

I feel like Shenmue III really has the opportunity to do something special with the fighting engine, especially considering this pretty much is strictly a martial arts video game (which is fucking AWESOME).

[Your Boy Leroy]

I should also add that I loved the Shenmue fighting engine when it came to one-on-one fights. Sure, it could've used more polish and refinement, but I think those battles were where the engine really shined.

[ShenBlue92]

I hope to see more counter moves like Swallow flip and Counter Elbow Assault... also, there's still Demon's Triangle, a move we couldn't even try out
Games like DoA are interesting when it comes to counter moves, but I'd choose a more realistic tone to the fights, like those in Shenmue.
Another cool feature would be unlocking a sort of arcade fighting game after finishing Shenmue 3 story, where you can select some of the fighters found in the game and play local and online multiplayer. If you think about it, the possibilities offered aside from the main story are a lot

[Your Boy Leroy]

The unlockable fighting games from Shenmue and Shenmue II were some of my favorite aspects of the series. Continuously taking on Master Baihu (or whatever that dude's name was) round after round was the last thing I remember from playing Shenmue II.

Deviating a bit from discussing the actual fighting mechanics, I'd like to say that I loved how each battle felt so significant, particularly in the first one. This has more to do with the pacing of the game than anything else. Finding every single Free Battle was one of my main goals in playing the game, just because they were pretty rare. Because of that, every battle you fought felt so much more intense, as if there was a lot riding on it. I hope they keep a similar pace in the third one, but I would also like the option to spar with other characters whenever you would want to. Random battles would be awesome too, but only if they occur sparingly, otherwise they would get repetitive (like in the Yakuza games).

[ShenBlue92]

I hope they can deliver a sense of progression, of training, both spiritual and physical for our protagonist. Ryo is kind of stoic and blinded by revenge, he needs to evolve both as a person and as a fighter.

Fighting in modern media is always about being kickass, but very few times I saw importance been given to the philosphy behind martial arts

[NeoShredder]

They should be able to accommodate more control if you take into account that the Dreamcast controller only had one stick/two triggers...idk though, what about the possibility of the right stick for combos and triggers for camera?

[shredingskin]

How about injuries and stamina ?

Certain moves taking more stamina that regenerates with time/damage/blocks like other fighting games ?

If you can gain experience point to spend in the skill tree, maybe you have to balance how much you can train per day or risk getting injured (so you may have to buy food/medicine) or getting recovered by days passing.

Also I was kinda mad they removed the automatic move button.

[FistOfTheNorthStar]

I like the idea of giving the game these rpg elements. Stamina not so sure...But the injury system would work well in my opinion. After taking certain amounts of damage in fights, your limbs aren't as effective in combat meaning if you hurt your arms you punches do very little damage until you get some medicine or visit a doctor.

[elmatto]

So long as it retains some of its complexity I'll be fine.
If they go full blown arkham asylum I will be bummed.
If I wanted the game to play for me I'd put in a sonic or assassins creed.

[BayStone]

How about injuries and stamina ?

Certain moves taking more stamina that regenerates with time/damage/blocks like other fighting games ?

If you can gain experience point to spend in the skill tree, maybe you have to balance how much you can train per day or risk getting injured (so you may have to buy food/medicine) or getting recovered by days passing.

Also I was kinda mad they removed the automatic move button.

Yeah stamina and/or injuries (especially with visual flair) could be quite interesting. Of course these can easily turn into cumbersome features, but if done right could work really well. So, seconded.

[Iorta]

Shit man. I would love to see a fucking area in Baisha village or something which has an area to train against other NPCs so that we could fight as freely as we want whenever we want. I think Shenmue 1 and 2 kind of lacked this. Shenmue 2 was close with its mini games in Kowloon however that got boring quick.

[Yokosuka]

YSnet should find a way to get the "casual" player into the Virtua Fighter spirit rather than decrease the difficulty.

I read too much people complaining of Shenmue fight system. Myself thought it was pretty bad before I became interested in classic fighting games like VF, DOA, SC and understand their logic.
I remember I even did not know that Ryo could block attacks if you got the good guard timing. Many others noobs on youtube playthroughs were in the same boat.

Yes I was a noob but make the fights easier was definitely not the solution. Now I think it's awesome and way more addictive. Fighting Baihu in exhibition mode is still a pleasure. Shenmue fight system was not only utterly satisfying but more realistic than any major modern 1vs1 fighting game.