Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:23 am

Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III: A Gaming Pioneer's Answer To Growing Homogeneity

http://naomidaniels.kinja.com/open-world-fatigue-and-shenmue-iii-a-gaming-pioneers-a-1740232568

A pretty good article on Kotaku's Talk Amongst Yourselves feature. Makes a good case for where exactly Shenmue and by extension Shenmue 3 would fit in to the open world genre.

PSA: I helped proof read the article. Still agree with it pretty much from top to bottom though, and it's worth reading.

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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Ziming » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:08 am

Is this the same Spaghetti from NeoGAF? :D

Regardless, welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing the article.
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Peter » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:54 am

Tis the same Spaghetti indeed!

Welcome! :D
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Kiske » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:58 am

Welcome Spaghetti :)

Doing a great job over NeoGaf forums!
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Gavan » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:44 am

Wow, I that was a very interesting article! I agree with pretty much everything it says. =D>
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Monkei » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:10 am

Spaghetti wrote:PSA: I helped proof read the article. Still agree with it pretty much from top to bottom though, and it's worth reading.


I'm sorry to point that out, but the article is riddled with typos. And while I like the point it's attempting to make, I don't think it's particularly well written to be honest. On the contrary.
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Giorgio » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:11 am

I want to kiss this article. Real talk.

Articles like this (and especially this!) rejuvenate my love for Shenmue. Other games (e.g. Yakuza, GTA etc) have better game-play? I do not care. This is not why I adore the Shenmue series. It's not nostalgia, either.

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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Himuro » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:29 am

Monkei wrote:
Spaghetti wrote:PSA: I helped proof read the article. Still agree with it pretty much from top to bottom though, and it's worth reading.


I'm sorry to point that out, but the article is riddled with typos. And while I like the point it's attempting to make, I don't think it's particularly well written to be honest. On the contrary.


Just read it and all typos seem to be fixed.
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby shengoro86 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:38 am

Hi Spaghetti!

This article is awesome :) Thanks for the share.
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby johnvivant » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:09 pm

great article, i'm going to read it a couple of times to absorb.

what i will quickly mention is that shenmue gives you the impression and therefore the feeling that the world is living and that there are events occurring even when you aren't directly seeing them. you really are viewing this living world from one mans perspective and following his particular story. you are constrained to behaving in ways that are within the limits of Ryo's character, but you have complete freedom within this range. this really assists in drawing you into the story. its congruent and therefore compelling. definitely not a power trip type of game.

most other open world games you feel that the world exists only for player, stuff happens as the player initiates it. this maybe convenient for the player but lessens the immersion hugely.
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Naomi Daniels » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:54 pm

I'm glad you guys enjoyed it!

Monkei wrote:
Spaghetti wrote:PSA: I helped proof read the article. Still agree with it pretty much from top to bottom though, and it's worth reading.


I'm sorry to point that out, but the article is riddled with typos. And while I like the point it's attempting to make, I don't think it's particularly well written to be honest. On the contrary.


I have edited the post and it's now typo free! Could you tell me exactly how it isn't well written? I could always use constructive criticism.

johnvivant wrote: great article, i'm going to read it a couple of times to absorb.

what i will quickly mention is that shenmue gives you the impression and therefore the feeling that the world is living and that there are events occurring even when you aren't directly seeing them. you really are viewing this living world from one mans perspective and following his particular story. you are constrained to behaving in ways that are within the limits of Ryo's character, but you have complete freedom within this range. this really assists in drawing you into the story. its congruent and therefore compelling. definitely not a power trip type of game.

most other open world games you feel that the world exists only for player, stuff happens as the player initiates it. this maybe convenient for the player but lessens the immersion hugely.


I completely agree and this was exactly what I was going for. Open-world games, from GTAIII up until now, have largely existed as simple playgrounds for the player. But that sort of restriction on the environment actively limits the genre's fullest potential.

This mires the genre with power fantasies and wish fulfillment, two emotions gaming abuses. By making their scope larger, often these games limit the emotions and diversity of play that could benefit from smaller worlds. That isn't to say the open-world game as it is shouldn't exist - quite the contrary. It has its place, but it shouldn't be seen as the only true interpretation of the genre.

Outside of a few, all of my friends complain about how so many games these days are just busy work and how they feel like they're wasting their time. As it is, some of the games become gaming for the sake of gaming - literal time wasters.

Surely there's room for a little more than that in gaming?

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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby fittersau » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:48 pm

Naomi Daniels wrote:
I'm glad you guys enjoyed it!

[…]

Outside of a few, all of my friends complain about how so many games these days are just busy work and how they feel like they're wasting their time. As it is, some of the games become gaming for the sake of gaming - literal time wasters.

Surely there's room for a little more than that in gaming?


I will admit I have only scanned though the article, but what I have read I agree with, we don't need to have an expansive open world for Shenmue 3.

I am playing through Assassin's Creed Unity right now and really the only variation to a rather homogeneous experience are the different locations, much of the game is the same when roaming the open world. Before that I was playing The Witcher 3 and likewise the open world elements such as mini quests and random events could be classified under a handful of events. The story aspect of the Witcher 3 however was great. This is what I am expecting from Shenmue 3, an amazing story driven game with limited open world repeatable events.
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby johnvivant » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:15 pm

the majority of open world games are checklist centric with a rinse and repeat structure - highly repetitive.
shenmue is an organic open world. the closeset thing it has to a checklist is the capsule toys, but the world itself strives to resemble a real world situation.

mastering the combat can make you feel powerful but its a side element rather than the core.
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby Naomi Daniels » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:37 pm

Checklist gaming is definitely a real thing.

Also, I'm trying not to talk too much about the bad media coverage for Shenmue III. I'm trying to lead by example and present a positive take on the series. If I can't change the perception of Shenmue from outside the media, I'll do it from within. :)
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Re: Open World Fatigue and Shenmue III

Postby johnvivant » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:26 pm

another aspect of shenmue's success is its ability to evoke the feeling of mystery in its story and world.

by this i mean, there is a huge mystery on all sides of me when playing this game both relating to the story and the world itself.
whats the tower with a blinking light on the hill - and whats it like up there? what are residents doing inside their houses right now? where are all these cars going? what it like in the area where that huge military ship is docked - i really want to explore it! what's nozomi doing now - i know, i'll call her! who is shenhua, really?

where is lan di right now? who is tentei? whats the mystery of the mirrors? what was my father doing in china all those yearsago? how did he come by all these mysterious artefact's?

the existence of magic is often hinted at but never confirmed (until end of s2)

so much mystery which i personally find very compelling.

the truth is out there somewhere waiting to be discovered, and as Ryo i just want to go out and explore it all. but the game erects barriers to my curiosity by constricting my movements to particular locations, but rather than frustrating me it gives me even more respect for the mystery of the world. Yu suzuki has given me the privilege of a 'snapshot' into this particular world of his imagination. i can't see the whole of it but he's going to do his best to do so within the limits of the budget!

you really get the feeling that the 'truth is out there'. lan di is out there, tentei is out there. the secret of the mirrors is out there. it implies more than it shows. there is infinite detail waiting to be discovered.

in so many games i really couldn't care less, despite it giving me a ridiculous play area, it has no 'soul' like shenmue does. its such a difficult thing to capture, and probably very subjective. imo very few games achieve this, at least for me.

i think this sense of mystery is what makes the discoveries of the modding community so fascinating, they are excavating more experiences from this world. its why we anticipate s3 so much. the world and story is so compelling.

and playing the games repeatedly over the years is like that great film 'groundhog day' where you are living the same period of time and events over and over again, you know whats going to happen, but you love to do things slightly differently each time, and the game often surprises you with new discoveries. its such a rich experience that i really enjoy returning to it. it give me that 'a portal into another world' feeling.

over the horizon there are mysteries waiting to be discovered and a whole new world to explore - ie. shenmue 3!. i love that feeling. its the feeling of looking out at sea and contemplating whats lies beyond it. i hope i am conveying what i mean here.

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