PlayStation Experience & Shenmue

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Monkei » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:24 pm

fittersau wrote:
johnvivant wrote: imo its still too early - at least for a big Sony event such as this.

but for E3 2016 however - i'm sure they might be ready to show something really great like an amazing trailer, if not actual gameplay.



Yep, at best PSX is simply a rehash of the Chinese presentations with smoother and clearer movies. I say E3 2016 Shenmue 3 to show something more meaty with E3 2017 to full overdrive hype.



I actually don't expect Shenmue III to show up on another Sony E3 stage. And if it does, than it'll probably be in some montage with other games coming to PlayStation. I wouldn't expect it to be a major focus in any form. And that's alright, I'm fine with that.
Having it on stage at this year's E3, especially in combination with The Last Guardian and the Final Fantasy VII remake, was a huge bang. But that's that, that has been done now and there isn't much more to it. Revealing the long lost Shenmue III was huge. Showing the now existing Shenmue III wouldn't be. It's an action adventure. It'll probably look pretty good, play pretty good. But it won't blow anyone's mind who doesn't already know and care about it. Fanboys claiming "Yu Suzuki will revolutionize gaming again" make me cringe. Most of the press people don't care or don't like it anymore. Why should they waste time on that, when they could show the next God of War or something new instead? The hype isn't as big as some of you pretend. It's just us, we're not that many.
I could be wrong of course. We'll see. For now I'm still hoping for a Shenmue HD announcement by Sony in the near future. Maybe even as early as PSX 2015.
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Hyo Razuki » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:32 pm

^Why would S3 not blow anyone's mind? Let's first wait how it turns out before judging it. :) Why would Yu Suzuki not revolutionize gaming again? He's done it with Hang-on, he's done it again with Outrun, with After Burner with G-Loc, with VF and with Shenmue 1. Why would he not do it again?

I'm not saying S3 will definitely revolutionize gaming and it's also not gonna sell like a Fifa or Final Fantasy game but if there is one guy who can surprise gaming and push limits, it's Yu Suzuki.

We're not gonna get a second June 15, 2015 again but I still hope for Sony to give Shenmue some good stage time. Even a video presentation together with other games would be good to keep Shenmue in gamers' minds.

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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby fittersau » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:28 am

Monkei wrote:And that's alright, I'm fine with that. Having it on stage at this year's E3, especially in combination with The Last Guardian and the Final Fantasy VII remake, was a huge bang.

This certainly was an amazing triumvirate of blasts from the pasts. I wasn't there, nor did I follow FF7 like the die hard fans, so I can't say whether Shenmue 3's hype or reaction was greater than FF7. From my point of view Shenmue 3's announcement was the most amazing bombshell we've had in a long time.

TLG doesn't look any better on PS4 than it could have on PS3.
FF7 is getting a full HD remake, it will be an amazing game for the diehard FF7 fans and it was essentially one of the games that defined the PS1 (along with MGS1), but still the same story line.
Shenmue 3, system seller on a rival console now on the console that ended Sega's console dreams. A continuation of a a story line that never looked like it would be finished. This is big for us fans, not just the fanboys.

Monkei wrote:Fanboys claiming "Yu Suzuki will revolutionize gaming again" make me cringe. Most of the press people don't care or don't like it anymore.

Yes, there will be an element of this and people might be disappointed that Shenmue 3 will not be as revolutionary Shenmue 1 was to gaming, but for most grounded fans, we aren't expecting it. We're expecting a continuation to first two games with Suzuki's take on what might make modern gaming interesting. I'll be the first to admit, given he's been out of the industry for so long and not actively participating in evaluating other people's innovations over the past 15 years, we may see somethings which are derivative from other games in the interim. I'm okay with that.

Monkei wrote:The hype isn't as big as some of you pretend. It's just us, we're not that many.

I think this where we hope Sony's Third Party Productions kicks in to send the hype as high as it can go so the game can reach mainstream audiences and not just old time fans who've been pining for the game like unrequited love.

Monkei wrote:I could be wrong of course. We'll see. For now I'm still hoping for a Shenmue HD announcement by Sony in the near future. Maybe even as early as PSX 2015.


Shenmue 1 & 2 HD makes sense. It's all up to SEGA... but I doubt this will be announced at PSX.

Silly thought. What if Nocon Kid was hired to lead the environmental development of Shenmue 1 & 2 remake and not actually work on Shenmue 3?? :mrgreen: Haha.. one can only dream. I hope they use the same team to develop a Shenmue 1 & 2 HD remake funded by SEGA. That would be the icing on the cake.

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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Spaghetti » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:00 am

I fully expect to see Shenmue 3 on a Sony E3 stage again. Despite not being involved in Shenmue 3 monetarily (in any tangible or definable way at least), Sony's current platform is hearts and minds of gamers. They are very proud of the fact they can be considered the people who "brought back Shenmue" (despite not cosying up to the Kickstarter until it was a proven, record breaking success), and they will remind you they were the people who brought back Shenmue until 3 is out.
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Let's Get Sweaty » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:01 am

Monkei wrote:The hype isn't as big as some of you pretend. It's just us, we're not that many.


How do you measure a game's hype, if not smashing its way to the top of Sony's most wanted list and breaking nearly every Kickstarter record imaginable?
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Spaghetti » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:11 am

Let's Get Sweaty wrote:
Monkei wrote:The hype isn't as big as some of you pretend. It's just us, we're not that many.


How do you measure a game's hype, if not smashing its way to the top of Sony's most wanted list and breaking nearly every Kickstarter record imaginable?

I think some people are underestimating that the interest for Shenmue is at an all-time high right now. Over on GAF plenty of people who never played the series were at least curious about seeing what all the fuss was about. In fact there were a few people who bought themselves a Dreamcast and both games in wake of the Kickstarter, and really enjoyed playing Shenmue for the very first time.

While dated, I think Shenmue has more of a place in today's gaming landscape than it ever did in 1999. Shenmue 3 will be a modern iteration of the design ethos that made those first two games so memorable to us and kept the cult classic ball rolling for 14 years after it looked like the series was dead and buried. I think the potential for Shenmue to catch on in this era is bigger than ever. It's not going to be like, AAA level, but we'll see more new blood and appreciation for the series than this community has ever seen before, not to mention lapsed fans crawling out of the woodwork.

There are going to be naysayers, and we know certain parts of the press have been intent on building a mostly falsified negative image of the game along with a puzzling character assassination of Yu Suzuki. When all is said and done though, I think when Shenmue 3 finally materialises beyond the prototype we've seen, more people are going to pay attention and more people are going to start having a positive outlook for the series' future.

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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Yokosuka » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:00 am

^ Same feel and same observation on my side. I was even surprised to see the number of persons who backed without having played Shenmue ever.
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Monkei » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:24 am

Well, I like your optimism, guys. We'll see. I'd love for you to be right with those predictions.

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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby drunkensailor » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:55 am

I was skeptical at first but by hearing very new tidbit of info I start to think yu suzuki still is the absolute mastermind in videogames. I'm 100% confident we will see the best videogame ever
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Spaghetti » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:14 am

I think best game ever is a bit much, but I do think Yu still has it. The clarity of his ideas when he talked about improvements to the combat system (I think this was the Dualshockers interview) are a good indication that he can still come up with engaging concepts he can easily communicate to development staff.

While he hasn't really directed anything that's seen a big release since Shenmue II, it's important to note he was still the head of AM2 until around 2008, and 2001-2008 was a very productive period for AM2.

I've always thought the idea of Yu Suzuki, stripped of superstar status, after years in the wilderness, and diminished resources, would yield some incredible creativity from him. Creative people usually do operate better with limits anyway, because they can think of more sophisticated ways to get around those limits or spin off in entirely new directions that could be more fun/interesting.
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Amir » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:18 am

I hope Shenmue III is a success not only to make IV and V a reality, but also to see some new IPs from the man, like that Côte d'Azur RPG.
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby drunkensailor » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:18 am

to me shenmue (2) is by far the best game ever made. so it wouldn't be too hard to do the same with 3. I own nearly 1000 games and have played many more, own 20 consoles and play videogames since the late 80s and things like top 10's are nearly impossible but number 1 is easy for me
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Spaghetti » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:45 am

Amir wrote: I hope Shenmue III is a success not only to make IV and V a reality, but also to see some new IPs from the man, like that Côte d'Azur RPG.

My only worry is that Yu is once again going to be ahead of the curve in some way.

I was going through that great "The Disappearance of Yu Suzuki" interview again today, and he says some very relevant things about the game industry and player habits that ring very much true four years later. He more or less predicted the rise of PC architecture consoles, and how gamers would eventually begin to appreciate a "less is more" quality over quantity design philosophy.

The guy has a real sense for the industry despite being on the sidelines for a long time. I just hope Shenmue 3 is a 'right place, right time' game that the original sadly wasn't.
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Amir » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:54 am

Spaghetti wrote:
Amir wrote: I hope Shenmue III is a success not only to make IV and V a reality, but also to see some new IPs from the man, like that Côte d'Azur RPG.

My only worry is that Yu is once again going to be ahead of the curve in some way.

I was going through that great "The Disappearance of Yu Suzuki" interview again today, and he says some very relevant things about the game industry and player habits that ring very much true four years later. He more or less predicted the rise of PC architecture consoles, and how gamers would eventually begin to appreciate a "less is more" quality over quantity design philosophy.

The guy has a real sense for the industry despite being on the sidelines for a long time. I just hope Shenmue 3 is a 'right place, right time' game that the original sadly wasn't.


Was there anything like the Rapport System before the Mass Effect series? I know Shenmue II dabbled with it with the Fangmei sidequest and in KOTOR you could influence certain characters but it seems Mass Effect was at least the one that popularised it with the "who do you want to bang out of these two?" sidequest. I hope the Rapport system goes deeper than the Bioware games and we see something new done with it.
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Re: PlayStation Experience and Shenmue

Postby Spaghetti » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:21 am

Amir wrote:
Spaghetti wrote:
Amir wrote: I hope Shenmue III is a success not only to make IV and V a reality, but also to see some new IPs from the man, like that Côte d'Azur RPG.

My only worry is that Yu is once again going to be ahead of the curve in some way.

I was going through that great "The Disappearance of Yu Suzuki" interview again today, and he says some very relevant things about the game industry and player habits that ring very much true four years later. He more or less predicted the rise of PC architecture consoles, and how gamers would eventually begin to appreciate a "less is more" quality over quantity design philosophy.

The guy has a real sense for the industry despite being on the sidelines for a long time. I just hope Shenmue 3 is a 'right place, right time' game that the original sadly wasn't.


Was there anything like the Rapport System before the Mass Effect series? I know Shenmue II dabbled with it with the Fangmei sidequest and in KOTOR you could influence certain characters but it seems Mass Effect was at least the one that popularised it with the "who do you want to bang out of these two?" sidequest. I hope the Rapport system goes deeper than the Bioware games and we see something new done with it.

It's hard to say. The Rapport System is still an unknown quantity until we see it in action, but going back to the interview I was referencing:

The concept for Shenmue 3 already exists, so... [Laughs] The world of Shenmue 1 and 2 expanded outward. So, for example, in the original games, of all the data used for dialogue in the game, the main characters' dialogue was about 20%. The remaining 80% was dialogue by characters other than the two main characters. But Shenmue 3 doesn't expand outward, but inward. A lot of the dialogue is used for the main character and especially dialogue with Shenhua. They talk about a lot of different, deeper things. For example, and I can't say too much, but here's an example.

This is not actually in the game, but as an example to give you an idea of what I mean by deeper dialogue, when Shenhua and Ryo are at home, Shenhua will ask Ryo if he would like to drink tea or coffee and the player will select one or the other. Or, Shenhua will ask Ryo a hypothetical question like: "There are four animals; a monkey, cat, dog and bird. You are crossing the river but you need to leave one behind. Which one will you leave behind?" And the player has to choose one. Shenhua will ask lots and lots of questions like these and the answers will get stored in the game and affect the outcome of the player's relationship with other characters. It's like a personality test. For example, the person who leaves behind the monkey is the type of person who leaves their wife.


It's clear he's had this idea for a very long time. Whether the version we see in Shenmue 3 will be new or fresh enough is to be seen, but I'm very interested in where it goes.

Actually, back in the GAF Kickstarter thread I theorised a way the system could work.

Say you are a part of Shenmue 3 where you need to lie to advance a certain way. If you had lied a lot to Shenhua/other characters through the game or had a low trust score with her, Shenhua would not play along with the lie and expose you.

If you didn't lie at all or very much during the game, or had a high trust score, Shenhua would go along with the lie because she would know that Ryo wouldn't lie unless it was important.

I think implementing the system along those kinds of lines (but even deeper, with more branching paths), would be a real exciting element for the game. It'd be the equivalent of a speech check in traditional RPGs, but influenced by how you behaved in the game.
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