No Shenmue 3 Until E3 2017!!!

[Rikitatsu]

Sending a polite message via KS yields great results, it seems:

Thank you very much for your candor. We will certainly be doing our best to keep everyone interested and in faith.

There should be something in terms of screen shots coming up this month.

Please keep your hopes up! This is a long process, but please trust Yu-san and everyone else involved has Shenmue's best interests at heart!

All our best,
Joel & the Shenmue III Team

Keep expectations in check, don't expect anything huge, yadda yadda, etc etc

Screenshots? Meh...

Perfect material that would be. Not too much for a kickstarter update, enough to keep our heads raised. If one of these screenshots indeed shows how Ryo Hazuki looks (!), we could definitely wait E3 2017 with confidence and excitement.

What if the screenshots are just Bailu Village huts and some trees/lakes?


Also, I don't know why people think we're gonna see nothing until E3'17... You guys forget there is a trial version coming up early next year? Assuming development in on schedule, we'll get it before E3.

[sand4fish]

That's an over simplification. I said I would definitely contact the media if it's not at E3 2017 and we haven't had a substantial update on the game development. If we get an update on game development this month, then that's grand. I won't contact the media because they will have shown something. Has little to do with 10k backers. If they haven't shown anything substantial before or during E3 2017, I think it'd be perfectly fine that they come under fire. Being honest though, I don't think I'd need to contact the media if it's not E3. That story writes itself honestly, and by then I will not be the only fan or backer curious about what's going on. Trust me if nothing is shown before or during E3 a lot of people are going to be wondering "where's Shenmue?" and if you think I'm alone on that, you're an utter fool.

The game debuted minutes after FFVIIr so you will have a hard time convincing people of this. It might even be true. But people will remember that it debuted alongside FFVII and think it deserves to share the same space. Furthermore, lots of games that aren't big budget get screen time at E3. At PSX, Sony played a Gravity Rush trailer and a trailer for Ys. Those games are niche as niche can be. So telling people that Shenmue III would be lucky to be on the same stage as that isn't going to fly with most people, least of all me.

It's not an oversimplification at all. It's simply to the point. Let me tell you why. You want a substantial update. But what that even means? Because it's relative and subjective. I deem to be substantial only the moment the game is playable at some pre-alpha form for example. So should I make my threats and demands in this case? Now... The 10k backers were shown some footage during their encounter with Yu Suzuki and they were pretty much satisfied with the "substantial" development so far. Therefore there's actually a substantial update in existence, just you didn't get to see it yet but some did. So tell me how the issue is not related to the 10k backers? What if this specific footage is finally shown to you and you find it not to be substantial enough? What then? So yes, you are alone on your demands until you go gather support from other backers to convince them of what a Shenmue 3's substantial update should be like.

You keep bringing up games (niche or whatever) that have proper production values with established development teams and support to the argument, when we are talking about pretty much a funded donation cause. That's what Kickstarter is. Shenmue 3 is a deserving must of a E3 just because it was shown along FF7R? Does this even make sense? This is just your personal feelings. Don't go add pressure and add false expectations to Yu's team and others. What's the logic behind this? What other crowdfunded games you know of that were screened at a E3 stage?

[Yokosuka]

Personally, I don't care that much of the demo. I want to discover Shenmue 3 as a full and polished experience so I don't know. My prediction is that we'll get the demo some moment after the E3.

[Rikitatsu]

Personally, I don't care that much of the demo. I want to discover Shenmue 3 as a full and polished experience so I don't know.

I think it's pretty important. I'll probably not play it either, but the feedback Ysnet will receive form the demo will be invaluable.

[Yokosuka]

I think there are other ways to get the same information privately and more traditionally. The demo is primary there to respect the backers and make the rewards attractive.

Feedback is valuable but can also be destructive. Apparently, Ni-Oh became a less interesting game after the beta because of the casual feedback. Imagine Shenmue with a free-timing combat system because some guys on the Shenmue III official forum (yeah YSnet/AJ promised it to us) complained. Of course, it's only a pessimistic and free theory from my part but YSnet are supposed to make a good game by themselves anyway.

[Rikitatsu]

I think there are other ways to get the same information privately and more traditionally. The demo is primary there to respect the backers and make the rewards attractive.

Feedback is valuable but can also be destructive. Apparently, Ni-Oh became a less interesting game after the beta because of the casual feedback. Imagine Shenmue with a free-timing combat system because some guys on the Shenmue III official forum (yeah, YSnet/AJ promised it to us) complained.

The changes made on Nioh is a mixed bag honestly, there are some positive aspects like doing away with the durability system.

But yes, fan feedback can be destructive. I agree with you %100.
However, the Shenmue 3 demo will be released mainly to Shenmue fans who donated $100+... While the Nioh Alpha was downloaded by 800k people with different preferences, expectations, and skills. So the situation is not similar.

I'm confident Shenmue fans can provide positive feedback that doesn't destroy the game's identity.

[Valascaziel]

I'm hopeful that the screens are enough. I'd honestly be more happy with screens including updated character models.

We know the environment looked substantially improved, even in the Monaco footage. I'm not as worried about that. Feedback for character models would go a longer way.

[Kiske]

I'm very curious to see the animations and mocap. Especially during fights.

What? Oh...right. Screenshots.

[ChiefNeo]

Fan feedback scares me. There are a lot of people that donated. Some of them have no idea about what made shenmue great. All it takes is a vocal minority to mess things up. One teaspoon of oil can mess up a ships water supply. Or so they say.

Can you imagine some teen going: "wtf this is boring. All you do is walk and talk. I paid for this? Lawl, shenmue sucks. Add more combat!"

Also, anyone who is familiar with game development knows that a demo takes months out of regular developmet. Watch the god of war 2 "making of" documentary on YouTube. Their struggle to get a demo ready for e3 as well as how time consuming it was is well documented there.

[sand4fish]

Fan feedback scares me.

It should scare everyone. Fan feedback will in the end undermine the author's vision and artistic control of his own work. If people have concerns with game mechanics, bugs and other in game problems there are professional testers for that kind of stuff. That's what their job are for. Damn me if this entire game becomes something like what happened to Mass Effect 3, where its ending was hated by fans so Ubisoft caved in and altered the original vision for the story.

[SheepheadCG]

Fan feedback scares me.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Yu has such a strong vision for S3. We have even heard from Cedric that they have fallen out a couple of times because Yu wouldn't stand down on certain things in regards to the budget. I really don't think he is going to compromise his vision of a game that he has been think about for 16+ years, just because some people write mean things on the net. If there are things that will make the player experience better, like changes to movement etc, then I'm sure he will be all ears, but if it it is something that changes the core game and the Shenmue experience, I doubt he will budge lol
He knows what he wants, and I don't think anyone will be able to change his mind.

[FlagshipFighter]

Fan feedback scares me.

It should scare everyone. Fan feedback will in the end undermine the author's vision and artistic control of his own work. If people have concerns with game mechanics, bugs and other in game problems there are professional testers for that kind of stuff. That's what their job are for. Damn me if this entire game becomes something like what happened to Mass Effect 3, where its ending was hated by fans so Ubisoft caved in and altered the original vision for the story.

On the other hand, feedback can be an advantage if used smartly. Virtua Fighter combos were chosen based on a input survey. Time skipping was introduced in Shenmue II after Yu became aware of the complains.
Yu Suzuki said also this at the Shenmue time:
"The director of a game must have a strong and clear vision of what he wants and for the developement, he should try not to go out of his way by listening to the opinions of others. There are probably many thing that he would be better do in another way than that chosen by the director but if we listen everyone and that we correct all, you end up with a game that looks like any others. It's beautiful a rose, but if the spines don't satisfied and that we decided to remove them, this will be only a carnation."

[Serenade]

This wait is torturous.

[delvec19]

This wait is torturous.

The wait for the game or the wait until we something of substance?

[Kiske]

At this point, I'm guessing that if you criticize Shenmue III upon release you might even be banned. How dare you criticize our lord and savior!

Really? After you saying that Shenmue 3 deserves SO MUCH that it MUST have a E3 screening because it's an equal to a title like Final Fantasy VII Remake (without a solid base for such opinionated claim), you really dare to imply that the rest of us are simply fanboys?

Sandfish said I want constant promotion. I really don't. I just want an update on the game and do not find the recent updates satisfactory. I do expect to see an update before E3, but if they don't have one as the OP of this thread surmises, then they have left their hands to fate.

I find my position fairly logical and reasonable. Certainly, after having the support of over 70k people world wide, Yu and his team would agree that not having an big update on how the project is going before or during E3 would be unacceptable. Only a complete fanboy would argue otherwise.

If they haven't shown anything before and during E3 then I mean, it's on their inaction to show the fruits of their labor that has the sum of nearly 7 million dollars over of 70k people's hopes. The fact that they'd not show anything before or during E3 despite those numbers is begging for bad press anyways. Also, this has more to do with the trailer and more to do with what they're doing with peoples money if they have managed to miss two E3's in a row. Concern for the status of the development would legitimate, especially with a supposed December 2017 release date.

How would I know that you will not want more after your demands are met? When usually threats are attended to, it just means they work and now people feel like they gained power in their hands. It's just a natural course to continue doing so. And soon other people will follow (or did you think you are the only one with wants and needs?) Do you see the really DANGEROUS TREND you are trying to set here? Even if you don't follow through your intentions, others might think it's okay to threaten the development team to get what they want. When said demands can't be met, Ysnet will have to waste money and resources just for damage control and waste time (which is literally our money) that would be otherwise spent on making the game.

Please answer me this: What real difference does it make if a "substantial trailer" is shown RIGHT NOW or 2 years from now in the long run? After all people know the game has evolved to some extent, because some backers have already seen it. And there's simply no fact that keeping up with "substantial updates" (and of the like suggested documentaries and creation of in game items) will bring worthwhile money to cover its costs (unless you show me the numbers or statistics for comparison). But it's a logical conclusion that it will be detrimental to the final product, because the team will have to allocate more time and money (resources that we paid for) on making fans "happy" that could be focused solely on the development process of the game. The opportunity cost Yu chose in the end is the wise one, as seen with other successful Kickstarters. How am I a fanboy here? I really think what I wrote so far makes sense.

I noticed also that you, Himuro, wrote some post about how the entire campaign could be improved. First of all, most of the suggestions are just to keep fans "happy" while waiting for the final product and it does not improve on the game itself which is all we really care about in the end. Your jacket suggestion actually just makes the entire gaming process harder. Besides having to go through the trouble of creating such artifact, they have to test it throughout the final build for possible crashes and bugs. Plus it will be another added promise that Yu will have to fulfill to the backers in the end. Where does the laundry list stop for such a limited budget and small scale team? And FYI any company or organization has room for process improvement, including your workplace or business. There're entire jobs just focused on that area. So don't just go treat everyone like idiots as if no one knows what they are doing, but a few selected non fanboys. We don't even know at what capacity the jobs of the members from Awesome Japan extends to in the end. Probably Yu would have to raise their salary in order for them to perform according to your standards.
And if you are still so keen on improving whatever it's being done, why not do it yourself? Go draft those improvements and send to them. The team will surely make some good use of your improvement suggestions if it's within their job description and capacity. Otherwise talk is easy to go around and everyone just loves to play the boss.

The entire discussion is circular and no one is budging an inch.

Not circular at all. I have no beef with you. I apologize if any of this offends or insults you. I certainly know you are as passionate about Shenmue 3 as the rest of the community. My only intention is just to STOP YOU from planting these ideas to other people that just because you are a backer Ysnet has to listen to you. Threats are not okay. You are willing to take measures to your own hands while not having the consensus from the rest of the community. I just hope that with my posts people understand that no one here is a shareholder of the company and Ynet has no OBLIGATION whatsoever to entertain backers, and not even promote Shenmue 3. Their only obligation toward us all is to deliver a finished game some time in the future (no deadlines requirements, read carefully the stipulations of a Kickstarter project), and the respective perks for those who paid for them. Just let them do their jobs.
So far, the project is on track as some backers already witnessed further development of the game process, unless you want to doubt them. There have been consistent updates (in the form of small interviews mostly) just to let people know that the project is doing okay. There are simply no red flags at all.

Sorry for the long post and thank you to those who read it.