Final Fantasy

[HappyKillmore]

I think Alan Wake is still on track for release, but they're not releasing a lot of info on it. Probably to avoid giving too much away about the plot or whatever

[Clint]

Good post Ryudo, gotta agree with you on the points you made, especially the Blu-ray being a big risk, as it was.

Alan Wake is a game I am looking forward to. I hear the writer was inspired by Twin Peaks (my joint favourite TV show) and he's the creator of Max Payne - which is one of the best series ever made, bar none.

Has the potential to be 360's best game.

You know, if I wasn't interested in Blu-ray or the upcoming Home, I would be tempted to sell my PS3 for a 360.

But fuck it, I think both consoles have huge potential, moreso PS3. I hear Sony have some huge secret game in the works, and it's not MAG apparantly.

[ys]

Bluray is handy of course for things like games but just like paperghost I have never been really bothered by disc swapping. As a matter of fact I even like having multiple discs. It makes the whole package almost "more worth owning". Like the great Shenmue boxes we got here. And it does indeed give some sense of progress and closure when the moments are well chosen.

I'm more interested in discs with bigger storage capacity when it comes to really storing data myself (for uncompressed audio tracks etc.). I'm not one of those types who go "Oh no, I have to swap a disc so the game sucks" when it comes to gaming. I'm kind of neutral when it comes to whatever disc they use. As long as the game is good, that's what counts. Of course, it shouldn't be bothersome. Changing discs every half hour isn't ideal either ;)

And I really hope that Alan Wake hits the nail when it comes to creating some Twin Peaks atmosphere. Considering this is one of my favorite series ever (still annoyed by the fact that it didn't get a continuation either, just like Shenmue ).

[Kenny]

I don't really care if I have to switch discs or not. I just hope they don't take out things to accommodate the 360 release.

And as for Alan Wake, yeah, they're still making it. Those bastards are just being really secretive about it. I'm still interested too, it's just buried deep inside until the moment comes when I have it playing in my PC or console.

[PirateMuffins]

Though to be honest. When it comes to the size of the data, the biggest reason why it's so big is because they didn't bother to compress the audio. Even losless compression could've made it three to four times less in size.

Exactly, i'm sure MGS4 would be reduced to a couple of discs at the most if some of the data was compressed, i don't mind swapping discs at all, rather swap discs than install games onto my hard drive before being able to play them thanks to a drive i don't even care about, imagine going round to a friends house taking a copy of GT Prologue with you, and then having to wait for it to install for ten or so minutes even though you just want a quick go with your mate, kills the whole mood really.

[Bluecast]

Alan wake was something I was interested in when 360 was shown but since forgot about it like many times we see a game that looks cool when the system has yet to be released and it goes vaporware or years later we get it and turns out to be average.

I do hope it turns out great though.

[Soul of Yusuke]

Alan Wake is one of the few games I'm expecting anything from as far as next-gen titles go.

FFXIII also falls into that category, although I'm a bit skeptical after the steaming pile of shit that was XII. My best guess, as far as the fighting goes, is that they'll re-do the battle system entirely. At least that's what I'm hoping for. The battle system in XII completely killed it for me.

[Martin]

I'd rather have it on PS3, as it's being created for the PS3. You should expect some data compression for the 360's version and it could go onto atleast 3 discs.

This is a good point. If I gave a toss about FFXIII (I don't), and had both 360 and PS3 (I have neither), then I'd get it for PS3. Mind you, a slightly inferior 360 version wouldn't persuade me to buy a PS3 if I already had a 360. Just like you didn't buy an Xbox/GameCube to get slightly better versions of games you could get on your PS2. You just got them on your PS2.

I know you love your 360, but it's a no-contest. Blu-ray everytime.

This is nonsense. You're a nice guy Clint, and I like you. Please don't take this like an insult- but you are inadvertently sounding like an idiot. It's not your fault. You get told stuff, and because you're not deeply familiar with the technology behind this stuff, you just believe what you get told. It's natural, and completely understandable. I hold nothing against you for it. There's many people like you going around regurgitating Sony's blurb on Blu-ray, and it's pretty unfortunate. I'd like to settle this matter, as far as Shenmue Dojo is concerned.

It is just not as simple as" 50GB > 9GB". That is essentially what Sony tell everyone, and it's an understandable angle. But you must understand, that's all it is- an angle. Blu-ray is the biggest selling-point of the PS3. It's reckoned that as many people buy PS3s to watch films as they do to play games on it. It's a selling point that Sony can always bank on, and it's the one thing, hardware-wise, that the PS3 undeniably has over the 360. Not many people believe the bollocks about the Cell anymore (too many games have passed that look inferior on the PS3 than on 360). But the Blu-ray nonsense survives.

For it to be a simple matter of "50GB > 9GB", DVD9 and Blu-ray would have to be identical in every other regard, and likewise, the performance of the disc drives in both consoles would have to be identical. In addition to this- there would have to be a clear need for that much storage in computer software. Last but not least, they would have to cost the same to manufacture. None of the above is true, thus, it is not a simple matter of "50GB > 9GB". I'll list technical pros that each format has over the other:

Blu-ray:
- Five times as much disc space.

DVD9:
- Much faster disc-read speed.
- Higher performance.
- Cheaper to manufacture.
- Less prone to damage.

That last one is moot, so long as you treat your Blu-rays with respect, as I imagine you do, Clint. The others remain, though. You have to consider some things. First and foremost, Blu-ray is not necessary for software. I know you believe that MGS4 required a whole Blu-ray etc, but it's just nonsense, mate. If Final Fantasy XIII can handle DVD9, then there's clearly no issue at all. Furthermore, I will point out that Sony have been caught in the past lying about PS3 games taking up a whole Blu-ray, when in fact it was discovered that the games could fit easily on a DVD9, and were just padded out with dummy data to fill the Blu-ray.

Secondly, DVD9 has a much higher seek speed than current Blu-ray drives, and the PS3 Blu-ray drive is even pretty archaic compared to the more recent ones. A lot of games just use the extra space to store the same data multiple times on the disc, to reduce seek speeds. So there's that. Thirdly, DVD's are cheaper to produce. This is significant, and is indicated by the higher cost usually being passed on to the gamer (£40 for 360, £45 for PS3). Fourthly, there are compression codecs out there right now that'd blow your tits off. Have you ever heard of x264? It's a HD compression codec. I've seen it in the flesh and it's amazing.

We encoded a HD film with it. The film went from 36GB down to 4GB, and we couldn't tell the difference. There must have been a difference, but it was just not discernable by the human eye. Fifthly, say a game simply could not fit on the DVD9, is it that much of a big deal for it to go onto two, three, or even four discs? RPGs in the past did it frequently, and it was kinda cool. So as you see, it's clearly not a simple matter of "50GB > 9GB". Thinking so is just ludicrous. It's like saying:

Here are two pies. Pie X is five times bigger than pie Y. Pie Y cooks faster, costs less, and sates the hunger of the average person. If someone is not satisfied by a single pie Y, they can have another, and even a third. Pie X takes a lot longer to cook, and is far more than you'll want to eat, resulting in much wasted, uneaten pie. In this scenario, what you're saying amounts to "pie X > pie Y, simply because pie X is bigger". You're completely ignoring the fact that you never wanted or needed a pie that big, that it costs more, or that it'll take you longer to cook.

These are the things Sony don't say. And of course they wouldn't. The world simply doesn't need a 50GB disc, at the moment. If it was equal in all other ways to DVD, except it was 50GB, then it wouldn't matter. It'd just be a cool bonus. However, that's not the case. As far as the disc drives in 360 and PS3 are concerned, Blu-ray is inferior to DVD in every way except capacity, and no games need the capacity of Blu-ray.. so that kinda leaves you wondering what's the point in it? You could argue it's not a problem for HD films even, due to x264 (check it out if you haven't, it's fucking amazing). For software though, it's a total non-issue. There is no software which requires 50GB.

Bare in mind, I own neither console, and am not interested in FFXIII. So I'm about as unbiased as you can get on this matter. The whole 'Blu-ray versus DVD' thing needs a fucking reality check, though. People need to stop listening to the garbage Sony and Microsoft talk. Divorce yourself from that shit. I was happy that FFXIII made the jump to 360, simply because it proved what a load of nonsense Sony speak about Blu-ray. It's hilarious to hear Sony talk about certain things 'only possible with Blu-ray', and then FFXIII gets announced for 360..

LAWL!

[Only Child]

Great post, Martin. I myself know next to nothing regarding the technology behind DVD/Blu Ray so it was an interesting read.

[Henry Spencer]

And I really hope that Alan Wake hits the nail when it comes to creating some Twin Peaks atmosphere. Considering this is one of my favorite series ever (still annoyed by the fact that it didn't get a continuation either, just like Shenmue ).

Twin Peaks never got a continuation? I felt that they wrapped everything up perfectly. We found out who the killer was like half way through series two, everything after that was like one massive epilogue. It was very satisfying indeed.

I can see Alan Wake being the only game to live up to the hype, it looks like what the next Silent Hill game should have been looking like.

[Neo Matrix]

I posted Martin's post somewhere to see if I could get more confirmation about what he's said, and so far this is the only reply...

DVD9:

- Much faster disc-read speed.
If he's talking blu-ray technology in general, the drive speed gets better just like DVD has. Unless he thinks dvd always had 12x speed. If he's talking specifically about the PS3 in general, that has been overcome with pre-installs and improved data placement.

- Higher performance.

How? Can one dvd provide full 1080p visuals and 7.1 uncompressed audio? Or is this just another way of him saying much faster disc-read speed cause if so he already said it.

- Cheaper to manufacture.
Well no sh*t sherlock. THe technology came out back in 1998. Maybe even older.

- Less prone to damage.
Let's play a little game. You take your dvd movie or game and start scraping it on the floor and I'll take a blu-ray movie or game and do the same. Then lets play them them. WHo do you think is still going to be able to play their game/movie with no problem?


It's clearly this Martin guy took the argument of which version of FFXIII to buy dvd vs blu-ray in general. The game is being made first on PS3 and is being catered to PS3. That means if even S-E keep the game to 25GB you're going to need 3 discs or so and if you want less than there will be compromises. That's assuming the game is no more than 25GB.

My guess and it's the best case scenerio is that all the CGI footage on the 360 version won't be native hi-def footage just like Dynasty Warrios 6. THe PS3 version is the only version that has all the CGI footage running native 720p. Considering how much CGI FF games usually has going from 720p to 480p will save alot of space.

[ys]

Fifthly, say a game simply could not fit on the DVD9, is it that much of a big deal for it to go onto two, three, or even four discs? RPGs in the past did it frequently, and it was kinda cool.

I also think so. It doesn't bother me at all if long, epic games get released on several discs.

As I stated earlier, I'm interested in Bluray when it comes to storing data myself (backups). In that case, reading speed isn't as important compared to space. In my opinion at least. I can imagine that it is though for developers together with a thing like manufacturing costs per disc.

And I really hope that Alan Wake hits the nail when it comes to creating some Twin Peaks atmosphere. Considering this is one of my favorite series ever (still annoyed by the fact that it didn't get a continuation either, just like Shenmue ).

Twin Peaks never got a continuation? I felt that they wrapped everything up perfectly. We found out who the killer was like half way through series two, everything after that was like one massive epilogue. It was very satisfying indeed.

I can see Alan Wake being the only game to live up to the hype, it looks like what the next Silent Hill game should have been looking like.

Well, from what I've read this was just the beginning of what Lynch intended to do. That whole ending was setting up for the continuation untill Lynch suddenly was forced to conclude it all. They would've gone much farther otherwise. More into those supernatural things (Black lodge, White lodge, more about Major Briggs etc.) according to Lynch and other writers. Revealing the killer of Laura wasn't the actual conclusion he said since he didn't even plan to reveal who it was originally. Untill the people in charge forced him since the audience expected a regular detective story back then. So despite fans unraveling some stuff and coming up with own theories there is still a lot unanswered. The arm, the domino brick, the fate of Cooper, shaking hands, Josie Packard, ...

There were talks to include a comic in the new box set with material from the third season. The artist got the permission from Badalamenti and the original writers who even offered to contribute with new stuff but Lynch didn't allow it. So no comic

[Clint]

I don't see a problem with Silent Hill Homecoming. It looks good.

People need to give it a chance.

[Trunks]

on the swapping discs argument, i actually prefer to have multiple discs for my games! it seems like you get more for your money when you open the box to see 2,3 or 4 discs. I mean the 10 seconds it takes to switch them around is not a viable argument against it tbh.

[My Best Day is Gone]

I like how people use "It was made for the PS3 first" to argue. Resident Evil 4 was for the Gamecube first... the PS2 owners had no problem with the down port... hmm... tons of games were for the PC first... console gamers had no problem with down ports for consoles... Gee do I have to keep going. Point is it'll work on both PS3 and 360. (Heck Squenix claims to have it working on PCs as well)