dev comment of the day topic

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Not really a fan of photorealism myself anyway, but it's obviously not a dead end.

Two statements I agree with, I only put in the bit about the tech because I've had a pent up rant on that.

[Bluecast]

Every cage game I have seen the animation reminds me of this commercial.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jubP3t27IQ[/youtube]

[Who Really Cares?]

I thought iwas watching Fahrenheit for a sec

[AnimeGamer183]

Why is Reggie even worried about it? Its practictly freeware, and $1 per copy of the game isnt making that studio much if anything, and I doubt its stealing much of the already established demographics of home consolers or specifically Wii players. This kind of thing to me looks like it would appeal more to the social network/flash game market (which goes perfect on the iphone or itouch cause they are all social network compatible powerhouses), no one is buying home consoles specifically for these types of games like angry birds. Reggies company is sitting pretty on top this entire gen raking in money, and hes gonna go on a rant about this? Hilarious.

Reggie/Nintendo's greed knows no bounds

Also Who wants to pay more than $50 for a new game on launch? Not me, hell I cant even do $50 anymore these days, much less the full $60. I have intentionally waited for my favorite titles to drop in price, cause i cant afford it and money/jobs are scarce, unlike the way it was 5-7 years ago, when it was like whatever to drop $50 on a game at any given time. I paid $60 total for God of War III and Uncharted 2 last month, 2 of the PS3s AAA games, and I am satisfied with that, given the circumstances. Instead of charging everyone more, they should find better ways to develop games cheaper. Plus in the long run, once the dev costs for the new consoles go down (which is why they have to initially raise the prices in the first place), the game prices stay the same, they dont go down along with the development rates. So these companies can go fuck themselves if they think I am gonna take that. well I guess no more launch parties for me... you are pissing me off game industry.

[Bluecast]

Mobile gaming is pretty much the return of 1983 in how things are being handled. In this case Reggie is 100% right.
Why get a quality game at 40$ when you can get a crap load junk for 1$. This is the same exact thing that crashed the industry in 83. History is looking to repeat.

[AnimeGamer183]

No way dude, Reggie is exagerating for publicity, plain and simple. I would have to see some very impressive hard numbers on mobile sales to think other wise about these kinds of games. Mobile gaming and the true handhelds/home consoles are like water and wine when it comes to game quality, and everyone knows that. To me the mobile games are the super SUPER casual on the go gaming market, something to just boot up and play real quick while on the bus/subway/at lunch break/coffee shop/anywhere on the go to play quick basic almost tech demo like games with little depth just to pass a little time. nothing like the more in depth games that you have to spend more time playing, which targets a completely diferent market. Reggie just wants to keep expanding as much as possible, cause him and his company are greedy and doesnt want anyone else except them to expand to these new markets, I wouldnt say they are really losing anybody on their target demographics because of the difference in quality and depth, but they arent gaining either so they are pissy about it (but thats not killing their already established market), same old same old corporation BS. This is so far from 1983, gaming has completely changed since then the situations are completely different, and I dont really see how the current is that comparable to then.

[Bluecast]

Nope he is right.
Even check the last two posts in this topic from Segata.
viewtopic.php?p=921244#p921244

[OL]

Gaming is also much, much bigger now, with far more hardcore fans than it had in 83. Fans who don't mind paying that $40-60 for a new game, and would rather have physical copies than weightless downloads. There are also people who only play the shitty cellphone games as well, but they're just on a different end of the gamer spectrum.
At this point it's nigh impossible for there to be a "crash"; videogames are as big as, if not bigger than, movies.
Just the same as independent film isn't going to shatter the popularity of giant Hollywood productions, $1 piece-of-shit games aren't going to take anything away from the high-gloss, AAA releases.
In 83, it may have been difficult for people to discern between a good game and a shitty one; the tech almost all looked basically the same. Nowadays, it's much easier for people to tell the difference. No one is going to take Angry Bird as an alternative to Mario Galaxy or Call of Duty.
Kind of a ridiculous notion when you really think about it.

[Bluecast]

They should at least get licensed. Nintendo just needs to reboot it's Seal because it's just as bad as mobile right now and people are eating it up.

[AnimeGamer183]

Look at it this way, they have a $1 price range, also consider how inexpensive the development costs for these types of games are. Lets say they sell 10 million in digital sales, ok now they have 10 million dollars, what projects are they gonna throw that kind of cash towards that fit in their gaming demographic? They wont need that much for these types of games. They can either A. make a bunch of these different kinds of low budget games (you could imagine how many they could make with that kind of cash) and flood that demographic or B. use that money to build up and the only option will be to make higher quality games or possibly systems to compete with everyone one else in the long run or C. try to make as much cash as possible while this fad is still popular or D. break even, go under, be moderately successful or in between moderate and very successfull. B is what nintendo is afraid of, them losing market share in the future. Plus these games look like a Full Sail students final project for their freashman year of college, development costs have to be dirt cheap.

The point is, even if they do make a bunch of money off these games, they are eventually in the future going to have make something of higher quality in one way or another, they wish they could be nintendo and they are starting from the ground up just as nintendo did to try to ultimately get in a similar position as the big guys, every game they are doing has been done before in the past, its old technology. The market is expanding, meaning more people are playing different types of games, not taking away from the already established demographics/genres. Only concern I see is that in the future these types of games get progressively more popular but where are they going to go from a technological stand point, that hasnt already been done, when making games this basic? It will be rehash after rehash after rehash. Even that stupid Angry Birds has already been done (shoot objects at targets in 2D oooooohhh). People are just gonna be left wanting more and expanded content, and there is really not a whole lot of room for growth with mechanics/technology thats so old. I dont buy it.

Get them quick dollas while you can son!

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Look at it this way, they have a $1 price range, also consider how inexpensive the development costs for these types of games are. Lets say they sell 10 million in digital sales, ok now they have 10 million dollars, what projects are they gonna throw that kind of cash towards that fit in their gaming demographic? They wont need that much for these types of games. They can either A. make a bunch of these different kinds of low budget games (you could imagine how many they could make with that kind of cash) and flood that demographic or B. use that money to build up and the only option will be to make higher quality games or possibly systems to compete with everyone one else in the long run or C. try to make as much cash as possible while this fad is still popular or D. break even, go under, be moderately successful or in between moderate and very successfull. B is what nintendo is afraid of, them losing market share in the future. Plus these games look like a Full Sail students final project for their freashman year of college, development costs have to be dirt cheap.

The point is, even if they do make a bunch of money off these games, they are eventually in the future going to have make something of higher quality in one way or another, they wish they could be nintendo and they are starting from the ground up just as nintendo did to try to ultimately get in a similar position as the big guys, every game they are doing has been done before in the past, its old technology. The market is expanding, meaning more people are playing different types of games, not taking away from the already established demographics/genres. Only concern I see is that in the future these types of games get progressively more popular but where are they going to go from a technological stand point, that hasnt already been done, when making games this basic? It will be rehash after rehash after rehash. Even that stupid Angry Birds has already been done (shoot objects at targets in 2D oooooohhh). People are just gonna be left wanting more and expanded content, and there is really not a whole lot of room for growth with mechanics/technology thats so old. I dont buy it.

Get them quick dollas while you can son!

There one really really big problem there, they're not making any money. Middlewares take a cut, and server costs kick in if you sell enough copies. Sure they make a good amount of money they still make very very little on the game itself. Which is why you generally see some of these smaller indie companies making one game or being absorbed by larder ones like popcap or zynga.

Gaming is also much, much bigger now, with far more hardcore fans than it had in 83. Fans who don't mind paying that $40-60 for a new game, and would rather have physical copies than weightless downloads. There are also people who only play the shitty cellphone games as well, but they're just on a different end of the gamer spectrum.
At this point it's nigh impossible for there to be a "crash"; videogames are as big as, if not bigger than, movies.
Just the same as independent film isn't going to shatter the popularity of giant Hollywood productions, $1 piece-of-shit games aren't going to take anything away from the high-gloss, AAA releases.
In 83, it may have been difficult for people to discern between a good game and a shitty one; the tech almost all looked basically the same. Nowadays, it's much easier for people to tell the difference. No one is going to take Angry Bird as an alternative to Mario Galaxy or Call of Duty.
Kind of a ridiculous notion when you really think about it.

Crash and death are two different things. the people you talk about, the hardcore they'll keep the industry alive, and because of that its nigh impossible to have a death in the industry. As for a crash that specifically when we start seeing the mainstream emphasis being taken off of games and placed back on another medium. Thats going to happen. Yea games are making more then movies its not the first time, think about pac man fever. Thats how a bunch of companies that started out in garages or making playing cards became huge international corporations.

Now we have to separate a few things. Right now AAA releases are not not necessarily games made of a certain quality but games that are mainstream. They may be making more money, they've also got steadily rising budgets. The way that a lot of studios (and this is something Activision and EA are very guilty of) cut costs and turn that to "profit" (although its not really profit its just money on the books for a bit) is to fire whole teams. They have to eventually pay those people but to push "growth" they'll cut their salaries.

Put in short they're not making as much money as you might think, especially now that the games are being devalued and over saturation has been kicking in.

Thats how despite even the shitty tracks packs selling over 1 million units they stopped making money on guitar hero.

In 83, it may have been difficult for people to discern between a good game and a shitty one; the tech almost all looked basically the same. Nowadays, it's much easier for people to tell the difference. No one is going to take Angry Bird as an alternative to Mario Galaxy or Call of Duty.
Kind of a ridiculous notion when you really think about it.

Well no. Theres really no other way to say it. People are choosing low fidelity games over higher fidelity games. People are choosing Angry birds over mario galaxy. thats actually why reggie and nintendo are up in arms. It seems rediculous but take a look at some of the links I've been posting up, thats EXACTLY what happening.

Worse yet some of these games are even free, which even devalues the 1$ games, the reason being the indies try to make free games in order to get their names out.

[AnimeGamer183]

No way to really tell how they divi up their profit/money, some goes straight into pocket, some goes budget towards whatever X project/marketing/publisher/maintenance etc etc etc. I was just saying if they sell enough copies, there is plenty of money to throw around. All of that was hypothetically speaking anyway.

But as I said, Reggie thinking this is a threat to his company is pretty darn ridiculous, bottom line.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

No way to really tell how they divi up their profit/money, some goes straight into pocket, some goes budget towards whatever X project/marketing/publisher/maintenance etc etc etc. I was just saying if they sell enough copies, there is plenty of money to throw around. All of that was hypothetically speaking anyway.

But as I said, Reggie thinking this is a threat to his company is pretty darn ridiculous, bottom line.

When I was in college I interned at Gamelab and Large Animal Games. I've worked at both small and large developers and I can tell you without a doubt that it is a threat.

You like games, so you don't necessarily see things the same way as most mainstream gamers. If someone offered you 10 iphone games like angry birds or 1 copy of pheonix wright, you'd take phoenix wright, but mainstream gamers wouldn't do that. Think about it, 10 games over the 1, its a better "value" on paper. Thats whats happening.

This is also leaving the ripoffs like Crystal Monsters out of the conversation. Basically they're cheap, badly made copies of popular games kinda like how in the 80s there were cheap clones of stuff like frogger.

[Henry Spencer]

The masses like mediocrity, what can we say? Iwata sort of gave a big speech about it at this years GDC. He was afraid that creativity would die with the dawn of all of these indie games that are coming. It's just a cycle and the industry is continually changing and evolving, so I think things will change to (hopefully) benefit all of the gamers, in the future, since at the moment, the industry is really broken up with the "us and them" and it really shouldn't be like that.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

lol i think we're all just to high strung. beer? beer?