Destiny exists and I can prove it!

[DaMulder]

I was thinking a lot about this and came up with a philosophical essay. Please read the whole thing and tell me what you think!

Time is something that concerns every one of us in every situation of our lives. It passes constantly and evenly. It is just an invention of humanity to measure time. We look at our watches not to miss our appointments and time seems like nothing more but a practical commodity that helps us to know when to sleep, when to eat and when to catch the right bus. But in reality time is nothing but a variable in space. It is based on mass and movement. In the early days before humans were able to measure time they simply looked at the state of the sun to know if it?s early or late in the day. The position of the sun is also the clearest example on how time is solely based on movement. If you don?t believe that, imagine a rock in a room without air and light. This rock is literally eternal. There is no movement and there is no time. This situation will change of course as soon as you find out this room is actually situated in a physics lab in Belgium and is constantly being watched by scientists. The fact that it is on earth instantly gives this room a clearly defined variable of time.
Time is also the 4th dimension we often use to locate ourselves within this universe. A person can be a certain location which can be pinpointed by a GPS satellite and can be expressed in exact coordinates. But to truly know where the person is we also need to know when he is! If you look at a photo you get to know the exact location of the object you photographed at exactly that moment of time when the picture was taken. So time is the 4th dimension necessary to define a location.
But time is a lot more than that!
It?s an inconsistent variable in space as it only depends on movement. The faster the movement the slower time passes up to the (theoretical) point where time stops as soon as you hit light speed.
So we see that time is not just the earthly 24 hour pace we are so used to. This brings me to the philosophical aspect: If time is a variable that is fixed for every moment that has passed already (because there is no way to change the past) how could we assume that the future is an infinite variable with unlimited possible outcomes, instead of another fixed variable. We hate this thought because we love the illusion of free will. It makes us feel good to know that we can control our fate, or at least we think we can.
But think of it this way: Whenever you make a choice you feel like you can control your future. Often we think of what would have happened if we made a different choice but I argue that it is impossible to make another choice. Whatever choice we make was meant to be made and does add up to the historical (near) infinity of the space-time continuum.
This whole universe is based on very strict rules. We understand the mechanical rules by now (although gravity is still not yet explained). But how can we possibly believe that one of the rules keeping this universe together should be completely random? It would not make sense if the universe has set strict parameters to space and movement, but not time!
So in conclusion it seems inevitable that we are just driving along a timeline and things happen as we pass certain moments in time. We can?t influence what will happen but we love to think we can. But everything only happens in one moment in time which will never come back and can never be changed. (And even if we do develop time travel, the changes made in the past will already be implemented in our present).
So just sit back and enjoy the ride! Keep living your life in the knowledge that nothing can actually go wrong, because things can only happen in one possible outcome.
The future is as inevitable as the past: NO REGRETS


Phil

[Birty]

That was nice to read! I have always wondered about time. I mean, who even knows if we develop time travel in the future? Because wouldn't we have already seen our future selves by now travelling back in time? A good way to think of it, is make a concrete seal in your mind of what time it is, date, position, location, EVERYTHING. Then, in the future, if you are still alive to use time travel, go back to them precise points that you noted, if you remembered them correctly, your future self should appear on the spot ;) . That is why I beleive I will not live to see time travel, as I have not appeared yet, nor has anyone else.

And about the time thing, that is true, as we will never change what our destined actions are supposed to be. For example, if I (in a min) decide to wave at nothing and think to myself "I bet the future didn't think I was gunna do that" lol, but it was actually what you were destined to do anyway, so in that essence it is true, but I do not beleive in "Future" as we do decide what we do, nothing else does, we still have to think to ourselves about it first.

[Buffy]

thats a very good point about time travel Birty, i just tried it, and it does look like i wont be alive to see time travel :(

[Espio Clone]

You know, I've thought that for a while! Exactly that! I haven't been able to put it into words though.

[Cyclonus]

i have been thinking that if we could travel in time wouldnt somebody from the future already travel back in time to see the past generations? :(

[Birty]

thats a very good point about time travel Birty, i just tried it, and it does look like i wont be alive to see time travel :(

Hehe, well, are you sure you remember the exact time of it even at this moment in time? Cos you may have forgot, and so you have no chance of remembering in the future .

[DaMulder]

People always get me wrong on this:

1. I do not say that we are unable to think and make up our minds about actions we do and choices we make. I DO say that whatever we decide to do, it was the only possible outcome. I simply say that we cannot change the pattern of time, no matter what choices we make, the outcome is predestined.

2. I do not say that we could ever technically predict the future or change the past or anything like that. Again, we cannot change the pattern of time.

Thanks for reading it everyone! I love thinking about these things all day long!

Phil

[Forklift#5]

wow...that's deep...

[Rhayno G.]

actually, time travel is simpe. as he pointed out, a prime "component" of time is velocity. If you were to fly around at 99% the speed of light for a 6 years, it would be around the year 700,000! (i forget where i got fact, but i remember reading it)

[Yukupo]

Now you say everything is predestined. Predestined by what? What is the point to having everything restricted and simple? The 'basic laws of physics' have been broken before proving them not laws of physics. For instance, it was thought that by throwing an object up into the sky it would always come back down. But in 'reality' it is because it is drawn to this Earth. In space it would go on forever until interupted by another object.

A basic lifeform has the makings to do what it is programmed to. Eat, sleep, mate, protect itself, etc. What seperates a sentient being from a non sentient? A human being is merely a basic lifeform with extra coded variables making them question things. The random variable allowing us to choose different decisions is what makes this form of life unique. Humans spread and consume whilst regular life stays in it's general areas. To say that all human choices are predestined would be saying that something created the timeline. But what or who would do such a thing? And wouldn't they be part of another timeline?

Agreed that time is the state in which matter flows through space. And the way we measure time is simply our perception. But I don't agree on destiny. I think the wild card the sentient life posesses is something the Universe needs to sustain itself. While most of the 'laws' remain static the only phenomena that stays dynamic is sentience.

If everything is predetermined, wouldn't that make there an end? And if it all ends what is left?
(I hope that makes sense...)

[DaMulder]

Now you say everything is predestined. Predestined by what? What is the point to having everything restricted and simple? The 'basic laws of physics' have been broken before proving them not laws of physics. For instance, it was thought that by throwing an object up into the sky it would always come back down. But in 'reality' it is because it is drawn to this Earth. In space it would go on forever until interupted by another object.

I don't know why people feel so uncomfortable with this idea. And I definitely don't know why you think that the idea of a fixed time variable is restrictive or simple. Nothing is restricted, there are still an unlimited amount of possible outcomes for every situation. I am just saying that the outcome is fixed! You agree that as soon as something becomes the present it is fixed and nothing will ever change it. Why should there be a point time that we can actively grasp with our senses that instantly turns an infinite choice of possibilities into one fixed pattern called past? I just say that just because we are very simple carbonbased lifeforms that can only grasp one moment of time at a time we cannot just assume that while all other laws in the universe are fixed that the ones controling time are random up to a certain point and then suddenly become fixed by entering the moment we live in! That simply doesn't make sense to me I am sorry...

A basic lifeform has the makings to do what it is programmed to. Eat, sleep, mate, protect itself, etc. What seperates a sentient being from a non sentient? A human being is merely a basic lifeform with extra coded variables making them question things. The random variable allowing us to choose different decisions is what makes this form of life unique. Humans spread and consume whilst regular life stays in it's general areas. To say that all human choices are predestined would be saying that something created the timeline. But what or who would do such a thing? And wouldn't they be part of another timeline?

About the humans: They are the worst thing that ever happened to this planet. Just look at it as it was 5 million years ago to what it is now. The laws of nature are similar to the laws of physics as things "naturally" go together to enhance their chances of procreating. Electrons do that when they combine a hydrogen atom to a pair of oxygen atoms to create water. So does it nature as well. All living things live in a balance that is shifting according to the natural environment. EXCEPT HUMANS who simply decided to completely ignore the laws of nature and destroy everything. Think about that...

And I would never say that something created the timeline. What sense would that make?? It is all based on basic physics. You agree with me that there are 4 dimensions. 3 of them create space and the 4th one is time. You agree that the 3 dimensions are all existant and unlimited, right? I mean, even if the universe has an end (and I personally do believe that is is limited and expanding!) even then the universe is just another object in the space surrounding it. That space has no limit. So why would time have a limit? Why would it have to have a beginning either. Time was "born" if you want when movement was created, so technically the beginning of time is the start of the universe. Of course the dimension of time existed, as no existence is possible within only 3 dimensions, but is didnt have an object to work on! There the universe comes in. But as long as the universe exists there will be time and no end to it.[/quote]

Agreed that time is the state in which matter flows through space. And the way we measure time is simply our perception. But I don't agree on destiny. I think the wild card the sentient life posesses is something the Universe needs to sustain itself. While most of the 'laws' remain static the only phenomena that stays dynamic is sentience.

Alright, I am kinda curious what you mean by sentient... But anyway. I don't think that the universe needs an unlimited amount of random outcomes in every single moment in the infinity of time to sustain itself. I am totally sure that is not what it needs...

I guess what you are trying to tell me is that time has to be dynamic so people can create their own destinies or something like that. Well, try thinking outside the box for a minute...

Thanks for reading anyway! It's great to have people who can actually relate to what I think.

Phil

[Yukupo]

No no, I'm not uncomfortable with the idea at all.

Also I don't know about time being set from the past to the present or the future. What you say makes sense because the past present and future of everything are the same. But how exactly would that be? What I'm trying to make sense of is how it is all fixed. I understand that you can never go back and make the alternate choice therefore the other option was never possible. That makes sense. But about the fact that everything is predestined, that doesn't make sense.

Also I don't think time is limited. But how could it all be predestined if it isn't?

I agree about the humans. The humans are a virus to this planet. They consume the natural resources while multiplying and spreading defying natural law. Now it is their nature to do such a thing. But this nature is all predetermined?

Now I don't have firm set beliefs and I don't limit my range of thinking. I constantly think all the time. I'm just throwing out different possibilities. But about fate, I'm less than sure on that.

[DaMulder]

Alright, I see we are reachig common grounds here.
So we can agree that the only difference between past and future is our own point of view called present. The moment we live is constanstly the border between future and past.
And actually, you also agree that one choice is always ineviable as you could never go back to change it. And that's all I am saying!
I am not trying to say that there is a great destiny set for every human. I am just saying that the path they will take has to be predetermined because the choices they make through life only have one possible outcome and the future is as fixed as the past.
It seems still the most likely possibility to me that the future is as fixed as the past, the only difference is we don't know it. I just don't think I can accept the idea of complete random chaos caused by an infinite choice of outcomes could keep this universe in balance. You need a fixed space-time continuum to avoid the total randomness of universal chaos.
So in other words: I think that without a preset future random things would happen constantly that our mind couldn't even grasp. Matter and Antimatter would randomly collide leading to spontaneous gigantic explosions. Matter would randomly turn to energy and the other way round. I think we would have serious chaos then. Because there is always a slim chance, that for example, we incinerate while taking a shower. The chance is really really slim (if you take an infinite amount of showers it might happen, doesn't even have to though) but if time was random it would happen sometimes. But until now it didn't! (And I guess it really never happened as spontaneous combustion only happens to people sitting around at home. So things follow a certain pattern and I beieve that pattern is set and will not change just like the other 3 dimensions and the past.
And another thing is that people have great difficulties seing time as just another of the 3 dimensions. The 3 dimensions forming space are unlimited so why should time be? Even outside our galaxy time exists, it just can't be measured... Just like the 3 dimensions are set. We don't see mountains suddenly disappearing or planets spontaneously change their orbit because the 3 space dimensions follow very strics rules. And I would not understand why time, being just another dimension, does not follow the same rules. But here is a brainteaser:
In theory, if you would pass through a black hole the pressure would be so high that it would alter your place in space time and you would be able to navigate in time, while space simply passes. So the time and space dimensions switch places! Now i know that this could only work if time is fixed in both directions, past and future. But hey, maybe there is another possible way although I tried hard to think of one and didn't come up with anything more plausible.
And I am glad we are having this converstation Yukio, it gives both of us the chance to see different views on this!

Phil

[Trunks]

yea time is just an invention made by man isnt it, and i think we cant even begin to understand it in our simple minds, It will probaly never ever be known. Its like syaing

how big is the universe, it cant possibily go on FOREVER can it?? If so, where does it end, and whats on the otehr side of that stop/barrier? lol. I get anyoed when I think about that, because i really really wanna know, but i know i never ever will. That one question alone throws all rational scientific theorys into bedlam, because what if the rules of physics etc we have now, only apply to this part of the universe? you could travle billions of miles and find gas doesnt exist there or gravity doesnt apply to things, as we dont really knowwhy graviti happens in the first place. Yea, answer that one, :p

[Buffy]

actually birty2k, i still do even now, and i wrote it dwn on a piece of paper and hid it in the important things, lol, so i wont forget, but looks like i wont be alive for it, either that or the government wont let any old shmuck travel back in time when they want to