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(Chapter 1 | General Series Discussion)

Postby Gingefners, The » Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:43 pm

Dug out the Dreamcast today and it has that old restarting problem it has so I better fix that before I reply Shenmue again.
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Postby Silas » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:07 pm

I've been playing Shenmue I for about a week now, after a long hiatus when I bought me an old DC to replace one that wouldn't read my Shenmue disks (or any other game disks) and got to the end of disk 1. (The one thing I do hate about playing Shenmue I is having to change the disks!!)

I wanted to hang around in Disk 2 for a long while, getting as many conversations as I could, which I did by dint of not finding the Old Warehouse District. However, I didn't like the music during those times, so I advanced the plot and discovered how short Disk 2 can really be, especially when you know how to find the mirror. (If, like me, you forget to go round the back to get the old man's cutscene, it doesn't even have any fighting in it!) Now I'm in Disk 3 and doing the forklifts. Again this just highlights for me how Shenmue II's substitute jobs were absolutely no substitute. Crate carrying has no gameplay elements at all, and minding a pachinko stand is a) unprofitable and b) tedious as f**k.

I've also been following certain people home. Yesterday I got the double of Yuji and Ichiro (although I already knew where they both lived).

My absolute delight and joy in Shenmue today does not derive from the great storyline, the characterisations or the gameplay. It is simply in the greatest simulation of a real world environment yet created for any video game; the fact that every character is a fully realised 3D object which even so manages to "feel" more solid and realistic than 3D characters in other games; the play of light on Ryo's arms and legs as he walks (still better in I than in IIx, imv). In my opinion this total immersion is mainly due to the camera, a system which has never been emulated by any other game - which, after five years of supposedly continuous advancement in graphical technique, is absolutely gob-smacking. There are now many games which involve the ability to talk to NPCs - but none of them use the (it seems to me) simple option of picking a couple of medium close-up camera positions, switching between them and moving the camera just ever-so-slightly during each shot. Of course a lot of the magic generated by that comes from the fact that the NPCs turn their faces to Ryo in order to talk to him, and that each and every NPC is totally geared to behave like a human body - which clearly is *not* so easy to implement.

The first game I bought with my PS2 had anime-style characters not dissimilar to Shenmue, only as well detailed as on the passport disk, and that was Project Zero (and now Project Zero II, which is even better). Not one game since has come close, except Ico which does not involve close-ups. My XBox does amazing environments and cars in Project Gotham Racing 2, but I've never seen a "human" adventure on it worth the name. Shenmue on the Dreamcast still stands absolutely supreme, and as time goes on with less and less effort being put into less and less imaginative and original games, it stands out more and more as being a genuine, all-time classic.
Last edited by Silas on Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LanDC » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:34 pm

Silas wrote:the fact that every character is a fully realised 3D object which even so manages to "feel" more solid and realistic than 3D characters in other games; the play of light on Ryo's arms and legs as he walks (still better in I than in IIx, imv). In my opinion this total immersion is mainly due to the camera, a system which has never been emulated by any other game - which, after five years of supposedly continuous advancement in graphical technique, is absolutely gob-smacking. There are now many games which involve the ability to talk to NPCs - but none of them use the (it seems to me) simple option of picking a couple of medium close-up camera positions, switching between them and moving the camera just ever-so-slightly during each shot. Of course a lot of the magic generated by that comes from the fact that the NPCs turn their faces to Ryo in order to talk to him, and that each and every NPC is totally geared to behave like a human body - which clearly is *not* so easy to implement.


Thank you for taking the time to type this for me.

The camera work really plays a big role in the experience. If you ask me, things like camera work and motions are the most important elements to a game's appearance. Unfortunately, the majority of game developers seem to think that packing in a few extra polygons into character models will make a game have "good graphics", whether the camera work and motions are dodgy or not.

Another thing is the lighting and coloring. I'll celebrate on the day when the brown palette isn't "hip" anymore, and games can actually be colorful and vibrant again.
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Postby Silas » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:37 pm

After seeing that other thread you gave a link for, I just downloaded the TGS Shenmue Online footage, and I have to say what I see there isn't a patch on the original - in terms of character movement, light reflection or camera movement. But it's early days to be making final judgements, I think.
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Postby Joey Bassist Dude » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:22 pm

Kiyuu wrote:Does anyone want to start playing Shenmue on Nov. 29, the exact date
when the story begins? You can play it on the same days as Ryo is on
in the game and witness his adventure as he proceeds. Thus, you can
practically live in the Shenmue universe together with Ryo! :D

Of course, you should wait until Ryo gets up in 4 days after the opening
incident to actually start playing the game. ;)


awesome idea, i may actually do one day everyday to keep by his schedule too ;)
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Postby Miles Prower » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:14 pm

I think I'm gonna do Kiyuu's idea ^^
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Postby Dicimania » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:39 pm

Hello everybody, I am new here!
A few words about me :
- 22 years old
- living in Europe (Slovenia)
- Shenmue Fan forever (best game ever)

I saw this Topic and I find that this idea is great, especally that we should begin on the 29. November just like the game begins on the day.
I baeted Shenmue 5 or more times, I play it always on the Christmas days, its just a great feeling to do so.
If we play together and write down our play-days in the forum that brings even more feeling.
The only thing is, my Dreamcast is currupt now. I plan to buy a new Dreamcast in the next few days (but before the 29. November). Hopefully I can get one.

Sorry for my not perfect english.
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Postby Stromboli » Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:52 pm

Yep great idea! 29 nov? Count me in! :D
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Postby Joey Bassist Dude » Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:25 pm

welcome Dicimania

im glad your going to be a part of this
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Postby Miles Prower » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:23 pm

Welcome Dicimania ^^
I totally agree with you about playing Shenmue during Christmas; I get a great feeling when doing so too ^^
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Postby xatruio » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:30 pm

i actually like Shenmue II jobs...to me, the saga changed. It went from a slow one chapter village setting to a huge city with many suburbs and quarters with a much more fluid and richer story. That made it faster and more engaging, which left no room for the slower jobs etc. of the smaller slower story of Shenmue I. See what i mean? they compensated for the many city changes with smaller mini game like jobs that require no binding responsibility to have to work everyday.
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Postby Cpt. Ultimate K Prime » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:10 pm

Post of the Year goes to Silas for that one. :)

I've changed my mind... I think I'll start Shenmue I on November 29th, play through it using Kiyuu's idea, and then just restart Shenmue II when I get to it. It sounds like fun, and I really do love the games.
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Postby xatruio » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:12 pm

damn! still no supporters pour moi...oh well, wasn't really seeking any, heh
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Postby Silas » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:40 am

Post of the Year goes to Silas for that one. :)
Hardly - I got totally off topic!! :D

Trouble with playing a day every day is the sequence when you're sneaking into the Old Warehouse District. Make sure you have a save file just before then, and try to do it the first day (which isn't, after all, all that difficult).
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Postby AzN.Homeboy » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:36 pm

Silas wrote:Trouble with playing a day every day is the sequence when you're sneaking into the Old Warehouse District. Make sure you have a save file just before then, and try to do it the first day (which isn't, after all, all that difficult).

Yeah, I was playing through Shenmue again for like the 5th time or so over last summer, and when I got to that part, I did it in my first try... and I couldn't even really remember where the warehouse was. I just of wandered around until I found it, guards and all. A lot easier than I remember all the past times.
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