Split topic from "Deleted Posts" - banned members.

[Sailors?]

I was actually proposing to Spoke.... awkward.

[Bluecast]

I was actually proposing to Spoke.... awkward.

Let's make it a threeway. I am pregnant with your kids you monster!

[mue 26]

It is about banned members. See the topic title?

But did you actually read my post? There are general problems with this site's Moderation, and everyone knows it! I highlighted the issue of one banned member as an example, but the same thing (poor moderation) occurs in many other instances, and this is why the "deleted posts" thread was made in the first placed, people unhappy with the moderation activities. Even if this thread was just about banned members, it's an issue that quite a few members here feel strongly about (in the case of martin), so this should NOT be in junk forum. It's not junk.

Anyway you lot can keep ignoring the blatant issues, but my post was not disruptive, I was trying to be productive by offering examples the poor moderation this site has seen all too much of, and hoping that maybe, just maybe you might reflect on that and learn some positive lessons. I'm being frank because subtlety does not seem to work. The people running this forum need to take a long hard look at what has been going on here!

It's utterly ridiculous and yet so typical that this is being hidden away in junk

[Peter]

Mue, see if you have problems with this place, post them clearly, and in a manner that can be responded to. I read your post quite a few times and all i can take from it is that Gboy should be unbanned, and the moderation team is crap. Thats your opinion, thats fantastic. Maybe we could look at problems you have if it isnt wrapped up in a long winded post that essentially contains 2 points.

But one thing, dont put your opinions across to me, or anyone else in a benevolent manner. I dont come on here to be spoken to like a child. I will leave it at for now.

[wude]

the moderation team is crap

I dont come on here to be spoken to like a child

we don't come here to be spoken to like children too, and that's what most of you do

[mue 26]

Don't speak to you in a "benevolent manner"? Would you rather I speak to you like a twat? I was not talking to you or Ryudo like children, I was speaking with respect and that's how I talk to everyone.

Anyway, since my "long winded" post obviously wasn't popular, I'll give a succinct summery:

I think do not think Bluecast knows how to moderate this forum successfully. If you want examples, that was what my previous post was for. Again, it's nothing personal, I'm trying to be objective.

I think every other mod and administrator on this site have been neglecting their responsibilities by allowing Bluecast to be (more or less) the sole moderater of this site, when he is not currently up to the task. If you want him to be the main mod, you have teach him how to do it properly, otherwise no one will win and it will be one headache after the other. I am saying this because if I pull Blue up he will ignore me, if another mod or yama does it he is more likely to take heed.

The whole forum suffers because of this. We keep having the same recurrent issues all the time on this site, yet nothing changes, it just gets swept under the carpet until next time.

I was hoping that after the "deleting posts" issue, that the time was right for Blue (and the other moderators) to reflect on what has gone wrong. But it was made evident to me that that will not happen, and you would rather stick your fingers in your ears and hum. Prove me wrong, take this thread out of junk and think about what I have just wrote. This forum has been off balance for a long time now.

@ Blue

I think your lovely person. Genuinely I do. this is just about moderation. Simple

[Bluecast]

This will stay in junk and in the mod forum we have a couple topics already.

[Peter]

Mue, its only you, Mittens and Riku who are complaining. No one else, and is it a coincidence that you have all had run ins with him in the past? Maybe, maybe not, but no one else is complaining. No one else HAS complained. Certainly not to me, my PM inbox hasnt had a message in a long while. If this is such a big issue for the forums, then surely this topic would be triple as long in agreement with the points your making. But its just you. Forums are a democracy, and are not gonna be changed because one or two members arnt happy. It doesnt work like that. If theres a majority consensus on something, then it will be taken more seriously then it will be looked at (and usually something done since Yama is a good guy, and knows the direction he wants the site to go in).

Dont post a reply saying "well other people have told me..", or "but people have PMed me about this.." because its not valid, if there are concerns then they should be made public. A majority of people privately on a message board isnt a majority at all. Not until they decide to come out from the rocks they are under. Again, dont say people are "afraid" to because sorry, thats just rubbish. Its an internet forum, and i can garuntee that no one will be warned or banned for giving their views and opinions in a clear, concise and respectful manner. If it turns into personal attacks then we go to a different level. If people dont want to go public with certain views and feelings then all that simply proves is that they dont really believe in what they are saying and are just moaning for moanings sake.

One more thing, another option for you is to PM Yama directly. It is his site after all. Theres a chain of command and if i am in work and i have a problem with another colleague then i go to my supervisor. I have a problem with my supervisor, i go to the manager. Its not my job as a moderator to chastise other moderators. I have tried my best over the past year to work and meet a common ground between Bluecast and other members. I was thrown in at the deep end to be honest, not moderating a Shenmue based forum, but handling all the personalities on here. Bluecast was an admin not too long ago, and he was demoted. Now you want him demoted again. I mean where is it gonna end? I bet you if he was a normal member, within 6 months you would be calling for him to be banned.

Also i apologise if i have spoken you anyone like a child Wude. Its a thin line trying to be a moderator on here. But its hard to reply to Mue when his posts have the "this is my opinion and i want something done about it!" attitude. That may be (an attempt at) objectivity, but theres no productivity in it by providing suitable changes. You want Bluecast demoted again or off the boards altogether in reality, lets face it. But if no one has the balls to say it, then thats your too bad. EVERYONE who feels that, but doesnt open their mouth has nothing to complain about. Its their own fault by not saying how they feel.

[MiTT3NZ]

Yo, don't be bringin me into this shit, my problem's been sorted. I do still think the set-up with the mods is shit, but it has been since I first signed up here. And besides, that's a problem for the site owners. Personally, I'm happy with the solutions to the issues I raised.

As for the banned members issue, here's what I recommend...

Start a topic in the staff forum. List all the members who've been banned (obviously not duplicate accounts or bots), post up links to the comments that for them banned (or explain why), and have the whole staff vote on who should be allowed back if any atg all. They could be put on a 3-6 month probationary period where any repeat of previous behaviour sees a permo ban that there is no return from.

[Riku Rose]

Mue, its only you, Mittens and Riku who are complaining. No one else, and is it a coincidence that you have all had run ins with him in the past?

Plus the two people who obviously agree with Mue who thanked his post.
Wude who just said also there is a problem.
Others such as Ryan and Sailors who posted in the other topic who feel him isn't up to it.
Plus the people who won't even post here anymore.

This community is small so I think it's fair to say they make up quite a bit of this forum and were only getting smaller. This topic is being hidden away same reason the last one got locked because someone got scared something may happen to them.

[Peter]

Yo, don't be bringin me into this shit, my problem's been sorted. I do still think the set-up with the mods is shit, but it has been since I first signed up here. And besides, that's a problem for the site owners. Personally, I'm happy with the solutions to the issues I raised.

As for the banned members issue, here's what I recommend...

Start a topic in the staff forum. List all the members who've been banned (obviously not duplicate accounts or bots), post up links to the comments that for them banned (or explain why), and have the whole staff vote on who should be allowed back if any atg all. They could be put on a 3-6 month probationary period where any repeat of previous behaviour sees a permo ban that there is no return from.

Apologies. But its good to know that problems that are dealt with in a reasonable manner can be appreciated.

I would only be open to unbannings if there is a bit of tweaking to the staff if i am honest. Me and Blue are the only two active moderators. OL posts, but doesnt moderate. MK has dropped his board participation, AXM has gone, MrRod is a coder, Ziming looks after the Youtube channel. But as far as i know, thats the direction that this site is to go in, ever since its overhaul.

Thats where i stand on it, and ultimately that decision lies with Yama.

Mue, its only you, Mittens and Riku who are complaining. No one else, and is it a coincidence that you have all had run ins with him in the past?

Plus the two people who obviously agree with Mue who thanked his post.
Wude who just said also there is a problem.
Others such as Ryan and Sailors who posted in the other topic who feel him isn't up to it.
Plus the people who won't even post here anymore.

This community is small so I think it's fair to say they make up quite a bit of this forum and were only getting smaller. This topic is being hidden away same reason the last one got locked because someone got scared something may happen to them.

Then lets hear from them in this topic. This is why this is still open. Its still in junk because its a select few who have issues. If its more than a select few, then lets hear fron them. If it becomes that much of a supported issue then it can be moved, looked at more closely, and see what can be done. But if people dont speak, then we cant hear, that includes simply thanking posts. If you feel strongly about something you speak about it, not just give a thumbs up.

[mue 26]

Mue, its only you, Mittens and Riku who are complaining.

So why did Kenny and WRC "thank" my post. That is a public form of approval for what I wrote.

Forums are a democracy

No they are not. We have never voted on anything, peter. Blue is the autocrat of this place, and someone disagree then their complaints get hidden in junk. Why don't we have a simple vote on who we want to be a mod. If Blue gets reinstated as mod I will never complain again. I'm serious, this is a good idea.

Dont post a reply saying "well other people have told me..", or "but people have PMed me about this.." because its not valid, if there are concerns then they should be made public. A majority of people privately on a message board isnt a majority at all. Not until they decide to come out from the rocks they are under. Again, dont say people are "afraid" to because sorry, thats just rubbish. Its an internet forum, and i can garuntee that no one will be warned or banned for giving their views and opinions in a clear, concise and respectful manner. If it turns into personal attacks then we go to a different level. If people dont want to go public with certain views and feelings then all that simply proves is that they dont really believe in what they are saying and are just moaning for moanings sake.

If you want people to take this thread seriously, or even see it at all, take this out of junk. Why are we having a serious discussion about the site's moderation in junk? I can understand why Blue would want to hide this thread in junk, but I'm asking you directly Peter, why is this thread in junk? Leaving this in junk is just a sign to me and other members that you aren't taking this seriously at all.

And yes, no matter how you try to dismiss it, people have been worried that speaking out will get them a ban or persecuted. Spokane even said it himself the other day in that thread in general discussion. The reason why I don't think more are speaking up is because no one believes that anything will change, this will just be swept under the carpet again, and things will be bad for them. There's been a lot of quiet resentment on this site. But if things continue to be ignored more regulars will start to stop posting, why do think so many regulars have either left altogether or hardly post anymore? I don't know how your not noticing this.

One more thing, another option for you is to PM Yama directly.

I wanted to have an open discussion, I was hoping for some dialogue with Blue. However, it seems he is determined to completely ignore this. I do want to a response Yama though, this is his site, and I don't know how he can defend what has been going on. That's another reason why I want this to be moved out of junk!

I mean where is it gonna end? I bet you if he was a normal member, within 6 months you would be calling for him to be banned

You asked me not to talk to you like a child, I'm asking you to please not put words in my mouth. I do not want Blue banned. I have made no personal attacks on him, I just do not think he is a good mod. Please do not confuse the two things again.

That may be (an attempt at) objectivity

My attempt at objectivity was listing you examples of the bad moderation activity that has been going on. You have not responded or even tried to defend them.

but theres no productivity in it by providing suitable changes

I have provided one. Lets have a vote since this is a "democracy".

[Peter]

A democracy isnt based solely on a voting system! There isnt going to be any vote just because you call for it and because you THINK its a good idea. Yama runs the site, and makes changes accordingly based on a majority of suggestions and thoughts from its members. Staff are appointed based on whatever reason the site owner justifies, and do the job they are appointed.

But you know what, i am pretty much done talking to you until you tone it down, lose the "i speak for the Dojo!!!" post attitude and stop making demands as if you are in a position to do so. Yama has been notified and can take it from here. I feel pretty confident that you are not prepared to listen at all, and already have planned responses to anything at all we have to say.

[Who Really Cares?]

I agree with various things that's been said and at the moment im waiting to see how things play out.
We do seem to go through a pattern where its fine then a shit storm hits for a few days because somethings said and either taken the wrong way or blown out of proportion.


I also agree that some banning were BS like Martin's.

[mue 26]

I know what a democracy is peter, and this is not a democracy. A true democracy is based around the majority of citizens (in this case members) having a forum to freely discuss matters of government and have genuine and regular and direct participation in the self governing of the state. We do not have any direct or regular participation in the governing of this place, we did not get to vote on who the mods are.

I have not in any way been rude so I'm not quite sure how to "tone it down", I speak for myself, but your not giving my any answers, your just avoiding my questions. Why is this still in junk? And why would a vote be a bad idea?