Shenmue Dojo

mjq jazz bar wrote: I think conditions are favorable for a runaway success provided the game ends up at least above average. I’ve never seen so many Japanese niche games do as well as they have this generation.

The PS1 and PS2 had loads. They dominated those consoles. But yeah, Shenmue 3 certainly has the interest from those in the Yakuza community as well who haven't had the chance to play any Shenmue games yet as well.

I think we only really need to look at Kingdom Come as a guideline for how successful Shenmue III will be upon it's release.

Nostalgia is a VERY powerful thing, hence why Shenmue III had both a very warm reception at E3(which Yu was worried about, especially following FFVII-R) and absolutely smashed Kickstarter records. If Sega wises up and releases the HD Remasfters, that's an even bigger opportunity.

Kingdom Come also had a little marketing, but it's real push didn't begin until really E3 of last year and it didn't release for 9 months or so after. They also didn't have the marketing arm of Sony, which is pretty damned potent for reaching an audience. Sony will make every effort to ensure something exclusive to them gets some spotlight to assist in sales..Hellblade was a big example of this also.

Regardless of reception, the first trailer for Shenmue III has almost a million hits and that wasn't at as big of a venue as E3.

Kingdom Come has already turned a profit and then some..I see no reason that Shenmue III won't do the same.

Shenmue I and II were in development since 1996. Shenmue I came out in 1999 and II came out in 2001. They had to pay the core developers that entire time, and pay for the voice actors, which was pretty ambitious at the time. It was hella expensive to produce and the financial return was only average.

I think it was a financial success, but it was a pretty bad investment for their investors since it took so long for a underwhelming return. I wouldn't call it a flop, though.

Spaghetti wrote:

JohnBlack wrote:What so offending about it being financial flop?

Because it's used to talk down the series and future financial viability. It's a very surface level reading of the situation Shenmue was in.

The original game sold 1.2+ million copies on an install base of like 8/9 million consoles, which is an attach rate comparable to Skyrim on Xbox 360. Ultimately the problem was the Dreamcast not selling as well as it could/should have, and getting steamrolled in mindshare by the PS2 even before it was even out.

This is my point exactly. Financials aside; a game selling over a million copies is typically considered a success yet when people speak about Shenmue they put it in the same category as games that were a critical flop.

I will always remember listening to an IGN podcast with that douche Ryan McCaffrey hosting. They were hyping up GTA IV and started talking about how the citizens had "real lives and weren't just walking around aimlessly like that Shenmue game". At first I thought he was being sarcastic until they continued the conversation. The guy probably has not even played the game yet he is spewing this garbage.

King John Blaze wrote:

Spaghetti wrote: I will always remember listening to an IGN podcast with that douche Ryan McCaffrey hosting. They were hyping up GTA IV and started talking about how the citizens had "real lives and weren't just walking around aimlessly like that Shenmue game". At first I thought he was being sarcastic until they continued the conversation. The guy probably has not even played the game yet he is spewing this garbage.

That's ridiculous... NPCs in GTA literally walk around in circles and can enact only two of three states: 1) neutral and 2) running for their lives/fighting to the death.

But to the larger issue - the thing is, some people will say and believe whatever they want to no matter what evidence they're confronted with. The only thing to do is to rise above it. Let fools be foolish... it's what they do.

True.

I actually remember first playing GTA IV and excitingly trying to test out how good the NPC AI was. Bumped into someone holding an umbrella or briefcase which made them drop it. Hoping to see them pick it up and continue with their journey only for them to walk on by.

King John Blaze wrote: Whenever there is a list of biggest gaming flops, even those outside of just financial performance, Shenmue comes up all the time. People always forget to ,emotion that both games sold over a million copies on the Dreamcast alone and if it was released on any other console, especially now, it would be a massive success. Lazy and ignorant journalism trying to destroy a games legacy.

It was a flop but was it due to poor DC sales/gaming trends/marketing/the power of the PlayStation? I suspect a combination of all of the above plus more I can't think of.

Also Shenmue was being held in high regards as possibly saving the DC and helping push it to the forefront of the console wars. When that didn't happen Shenmue received a lot of backlash.

A thought that just occurred to me was also that Shenmue was hard to describe in gaming terms. It was more of an experience than a game. That made word to mouth very difficult. Games sold back in the 90's as much due to word of mouth as explicit marketing. Its hard to imagine if you have only lived in the internet age but before the internet a game, even a poor game could sell well if enough people were talking about it.

Shenmue was also unlucky to face the PS2 Monster.

Shenmue was released in Europe the 1st December 2000, and the PS2 was released...one week before, the 24 November 2000.

In the USA, Shenmue was released the 7 November 2000, and the PS2 was released...two weeks before,, the 26 October 2000.

In Japan, Shenmue was released the 29 December 1999 and the PS2 was released the 4th March 2000.

I remember the majority of gamers were waiting for the Playstation 2, i was also trying to convince my friends to trust Sega and his DC and buy Shenmue, but it was almost impossible to change their minds, the media and the players were focused on the PS2.

Other problem was that players don't trust so much Sega after the Mega CD, 32X and Saturn flops.

Pollito Diablo wrote: Shenmue was also unlucky to face the PS2 Monster.

Shenmue was released in Europe the 1st December 2000, and the PS2 was released...one week before, the 24 November 2000.

In the USA, Shenmue was released the 7 November 2000, and the PS2 was released...two weeks before,, the 26 October 2000.

In Japan, Shenmue was released the 29 December 1999 and the PS2 was released the 4th March 2000.

I remember the majority of gamers were waiting for the Playstation 2, i was also trying to convince my friends to trust Sega and his DC and buy Shenmue, but it was almost impossible to change their minds, the media and the players were focused on the PS2.

Other problem was that players don't trust so much Sega after the Mega CD, 32X and Saturn flops.

Very much so. Sega lost a tonne of consumer confidence with the Mega Drive/Genesis add ons & then releasing the Saturn. Lots of people were rightly pissed and it harmed the DC which had arguably one of the strongest game line-ups going at the time. Also the lack of a DVD player in the DC didn't help but cost implications stopped that before the console came out.

Shenmue 1 did well worldwide with 1 million sales so from that perspective it did well but financially it didn't and the release of Shenmue 2 was very quiet in the EU at least so didn't garner much interest. Couple that with the failure to release the series on the most popular platform at the time (PS2, after SEGA left the market) pretty much killed it from a business viability standpoint. Not the games fault but a series of poor business decisions more than anything. There is the argument the PS2 may have struggled with Shenmue in terms of performance but I'll let more informed people than me conclude on that!