$10 mill was never going to happen

[Himuro]

Grim Fandango has been played a lot more times than Shenmue. PC is BIG, easy to pirate, and Grim Fandango was pretty much the last "great adventure game".

It's really well known. Less cultish than Shenmue yeah, but by far better well known.

Grim is known, but I haven't seen as many people talk about it as Shenmue. Grim Fandango HD came and went, I don't think many besides those who already played it like myself cared too much. Could be wrong about that, but going by my Steam friends list barely anyone on it has bought it, and that's a total of six people out of...110 friends.

Shenmue and Grim are both niche, but like, I've never seen Grim get nearly as much love Shenmue.

[manuel tripero]

Being a vocal minority doesn't mean it's not niche.

Pretty much that.

And it doesn't mean that weird or different games cannot be a commercial success, they can but as for now Shenmue is still a storydriven cult game with a III as it's last name.

That doesn't mean that it cannot be a hit, a lot of people have not played the original metal gears, and now it's one of the biggest gaming names. Hopefully something similar will happen to Shenmue (shortening the distances between 14 year lapsus and being a franchise on the most succesfull consoles of their time).

[Himuro]

Did anyone really dispute that being a vocal minority doesn't make it niche? I just don't buy that being niche doesn't mean it's incapable of success. I mean, we're almost 5 million long, and it's a niche game. Bloodstained, which is a successor to Castlevania, one of the largest properties in all of gaming, only managed to get 5.5 million. I think if Shenmue surpasses that, niche or not, it's something to be proud of.

[joka]

I don't think you're actually disagreeing lol (it's bloodstained btw Himuro).

Grim Fandango is a fair comparison I think as they're both critically acclaimed yet niche series- I've no idea if it was commercially more successfully than Shenmue 1/2 or how the HD remake has sold though.

So I think most people are agreed that 5m would be a fantastic achievement for a game 14 years in waiting right? Regardless of mainstream or niche that's 14 years- mainstream has become niche and niche has become mainstream and back again in that time lol

[AnimeGamer183]

Shenmue is not mainstream.

I knew we were all gaming hipsters...

[SMDzero]

10 Million is INDEED possible. Each of our 50,000 supporters need only to pledge $200. I myself pledged $185 and I'm going to up it to $200 even before the KS ends.

What every one of our supporters needs to understand is this: why won't you pay $200 for Shenmue 3? If Shenmue 3 were on shelves right now for $200 you know you'd buy it!

So tell me you hate Shenmue... tell me you hate Sega.... tell me you hate Yu Suzuki... but DON'T tell me that you can't put together $200... because it insults my intelligence.

Maybe you dont know, but there is a countries where 200$ is more than average salary per month.

No KS supporter is living off $200USD per annum. If they were then they'd be insane to even pledge $1.

Debating over how much you can pledge on a Kickstarter is a 1st world problem.

Oh I guess you said per month... still if you're making $200 per month you cannot and should not be throwing away even 50 cents of a kickstarter.

you are wrong here SMDzero, there are a lot of backers who make 200 euros more or less and still decide to back Shenmue 3.

So someone is making $200 per month... which means they have to LIVE off of $6.55 per day BEFORE food and shelter expenses.

They would throw away $5.00 on a video game, that they would still have to buy?

Conceding the notion that "some" exceedingly poor folk will support the KS they would still eventually have to buy the game for $39.. meaning that they only would have to spend another $161 to make their fair share of $200.

The kickstarter wouldn't charge you for a month so you'd only have to raise $5.19 per day over the 31 day Kickstarter term to make the necessary $161 on top of the $39 you're already committed to spending.

[tonks]

While I agree that $5m is an incredible achievement for the campaign that we have, I can't help but believe that the amount would have been higher if we'd had a different campaign altogether. I think the Kickstarter has done a fantastic job of rallying the existing fanbase of a 15 year old franchise. However, it's not done a great job at telling people who are unfamiliar with Shenmue why they should care.

Instead of that embarrassing video of Ryo and Shenhua, I think it would have just been wiser to just explain what Yu wants Shenmue3 to be. Specifically, an open-world experience that is not like anything else due to its setting in rural 1980s China and focus on character interaction. Show concept art in detail. The villages you get to explore, and their real-life counterparts (there's a thread here that shows real-life analogues to the villages in Shenmue3 and it did more to excite me than anything on the Kickstarter page). Talk about the combat system and how it's better than the combat featured in most modern open-world games. And most importantly, say from the very beginning that while 2m is enough to continue the story, 10m is the figure needed to make the game Yu really wants to make, a game that will not only hold up against modern open-world games but push the boat out the in the same way the original Shenmue did back then.

In short, explain to someone who might be a fan of The Elder Scrolls (or whatever), why they should donate a little bit of spare change to a sequel to a game they've never heard of.

[SMDzero]

I'm not too worried because we all know Shenmue II already was somewhat compromised. Suzuki had to cut out the boat sequence (which would have been EPIC).

Hong Kong was cut down as well, there was going to be more to do with the family that ran the Herb store in South Carmain, less interesting jobs (moving crates was just a glorified QTE) less items to examine, no telephones, no walkman, more "shimmery" graphics, no motorcycle, the list goes on.

Kowloon was great.. but only a single disc... could have been more content and less empty rooms.

As great as Shenmue II was I don't believe it was Suzuki's full vision but regardless it's our favorite game of all time nearly. I'm sure a compromised SIII will be at least as good as SII if not better given the better technology, ideas, etc.

[Riku Rose]

Shenmue is not mainstream. It doesn't matter how many people bought the game on a stillborn system 15 years ago. More people bought a PS2 around that time because the PS1 was a more popular system. So the number of DC users is relatively negligible in that regard, let alone counting that 1 out of 10 bought this game (where ever that figure comes from).

Talk to the average person about Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy, Uncharted, Halo, Street Fighter, Call of Cuty, ect and most likely people know what you're talking about.

Talk to the average person about Jet Set Radio, Shenmue, ICO, Grim Fandango, ect and they'll likely tilt their heads and look at you funny. Those games I just mentioned have their huge fanbases for sure...but not on the level of the former titles. Be it as it may, the Shenmue fanbase has proven before the Kickstarter that they are ADAMANT and this proves that. The fact it's currently the second most crowdfunded videogame ever is very impressive among other records it broke.

But to expect it to be on the level of Oculus Rift and Pebble Watch in terms of financing is a bit too unrealistic. That's what the $10 million goal is with crowdfunding alone, we might see up to $6 million at most (and that's stretching it).

And my argument is NOT that it WON'T sell on a mainstream platform, it's that it's NO big deal that it's currently hovering around the $5 million mark. People don't realize that PayPal and outside investing are options, they're too caught up on the fact Yu can't get his ten millioz without the fanbase. BS, the fact it's one of the biggest kickstarters in quite awhile is enough for investors who won't know any better to open their wallets and cash in on what they think will be a nice return in investment. Or banks handing out loans.

Just a few things to add.

Out of the 1 million people how many liked Shenmue? Outside of this forum I've seen many say they hated it.

Out of how many liked it, how many actually look at video game news and know this Kickstarter is happening? The majority of people who buy games don't know a game exists until they see an ad or the game on a shelf.

Then there is also the people who just don't play games anymore. Most teenagers play video games but grow out of them as they grow older. I'd be surprised if a lot of people who bought Shenmue have picked up a controller in 10 years.

I'm sure the things I've written apply to a lot of the 1 million people who bought Shenmue which rules them out of donating.

[Himuro]

I also know a lot of people who liked the original but never played the sequel. A symptom of MS screwing Dreamcast owners, definitely.

[AnimeGamer183]

Riku brought up points i have been trying to stress this whole time, BUT there is more to it than that even. How many people downloaded and played these games, either burnt copies on an actual Dreamcast or Emulator? That I think is the wild card here, we cant really know how many people have played them under these methods. Question now is, will they pay to help fund the 3rd game? I think the answer is yes, the shenmue effect is a most curious one, and look at how much money fans alone have already contributed? There is most definitely something going on here, and I think we will end up seeing Shenmue 3 be made exactly how Yu-san envisions it to be, regardless if the kick starter reachers 10 million. There is too much buzz and hype and emotion behind this now, and everyone knows it, and not only that but the numbers are there, someone/some company is gonna open their wallets for this. How many times I gotta say it?

[Kenny]

Bloodstained and Yooka-Laylee are both spiritual successors and raked in tons of cash. Yet if you talk to a person who isn't hours on end on gaming forums or privy to anything gaming, they'll likely not know about it. Plus those budgets, despite the reputations behind it, did not take in over $10 million.

I mean, again, it's not a way of questioning whether or not it'll do well. It's a matter of setting expectations on how much funding it will get NOW and how much more it will get as the development goes on. Thinking it will hit $10 million and then agonizing on how dumbed down the game will be because crowdfunding didn't hit that goal is just unrealistic and a waste of time to even think about when you consider the other venues they have to gather more money.

The crowdfunding is not the be-all-end-all of this game. It was just setup to test the demand see if fans and adventure enthusiasts would actually put their money where their mouth is. And guess what--DING DING, it worked. There's evidence for a demand. Now they have a much stronger argument to ask for more money to get the rest of the budget they need, which I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually much much higher.

Besides, wasn't each Chapter of the game supposed to be its own game? Suzuki is way too damn ambitious, he needs to learn to scale back because it is possible to make something more from less. He earned the reputation of being the Michael Cimino of videogames and he needs to be more frugal this time.

[manuel tripero]

On a positive note about "cult" "niche" and stuff:

The games we are getting now "renamed" are games that were loved but put aside, not only for monetary reasons but by market reasons. 3D platform is pretty much just Nintendo turf, metroidvania games have some appeal as digital (20 or 30 dls) and they moved the franchise to 3D, adventure games have mechanics that have aged badly (even though I still love them) and rely more on writing than on gameplay.

Shenmue is a game that it's still interesting marketwise, but flunked due to budgeting and bad marketing desitions. Dreamcast failed, SII on xbox was almost early and not very promoted (even early reviews gave it a bad score because graphics were DC era while xbox was about "power").

Even today the game has aged beautifully for the most part, and in an era of third person action games Shenmue still has it's way of storytelling that it's very interesting to today's market (even most of these games get some heat for "meh" writing).

For example The Last of Us was a game that was mostly praised by it's "cinematic feel" more than gameplay (same for bioshock), or Quantic Dream that is getting money doing a "lowtier" Shenmue approach.

If Yu can make a good game, people will see it. And I think it has a good market for it to grow quite a bit.

[Ryo Fhan]

The number 1 problem was the KS It self. You have a short window of time to catch people's attention. You would have to know that most people who go and look and things look a them once or twice and forget it. How any pledgers never went back to up to physical. How many people won't know about the jacket and other things? A lot,no doubt.

- Too low of initial goal (people will say , well it's funded and move on )
-Tier problems
-Poorly worded and designed stretch goals
-A bad looking game to be fair (models) most games that do well have nice things to show (unless they have names backing it)
-A very slow push after people were begging for it for days

When they finally got them self into grear a lot of people had moved on, forgot about it and continued life.

Of course the biggest fans will be watching it etc but there are all sorts of people and personalities. Of course what I say doesn't apply to you, but it does apply for many.


If they were going to hit 10 million, 5 million would have been there in the first 5 days

how this could have been done

Better and more clear message
Better looking game demo
5 million goal with better and more clear stretch goals from 5 to 10 million
Tiers that were interesting
should have had physical talk and had it up with in 3 days

I feel it could have been close

[BruceWayne911]

The biggest mistakes of the campaign were the initial minimum goal of 2,000,000 dollars, clarification of the stretch goals, and Sony involvement. Once we reached the 2 million dollar mark the pledges began to slow down, I believe our overall total would be higher if not for this. I'm not gonna say it would be 10 million but it would be higher imo. The kickstarter team should have been upfront about all the stretch goals, we thought we were getting the full Shenmue experience and then out of nowhere we need 10 million for true open world, gotta be more clear about these things. As soon as the Shenmue announcement was over at E3 Sony should have been upfront about their involvement. Everybody thought Sony was fully back Shenmue this hurt the campaign the most. This is just my opinion. On the bright sides Shenmue 3 is coming. Also if they continue to accept donations after the campaign via paypal we'll reach the 10 million goal.