When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Yokosuka » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:10 pm

0) The explanation :
Yokosuka wrote: Thanks a French article, I now understand why he talked about 16 chapters. In fact, it has always been 11+5 chapters. The 5 chapters were bridges between the main chapters. That's why we had the boat and the train as unique chapters.


--------

1) From the Dreamcast Official US magazine 2000 November uploaded by Telekill ( viewtopic.php?f=3&t=48738 )

Shenmue 1 : Chapter 1 to 5
Shenmue 2 : Chapter 6 to 10
Shenmue 3 : Chapter 11 to 16
with Shenmue 3 supposed to be the last episode.

Image

2) Then we got this image from AM2 according Shenmue Master
Image
and the following informations :
Chapter 1 Yokosuka
Chapter 2 The boat (cancelled)
Chapter 3 Aberdeen
Chapter 4 Wan Chai
Chapter 5 Kowloon
Chapter 6 Guilin
Chapter 7
Chapter 8
Chapter 9
Chapter 10
Chapter 11
Chapter 12
Chapter 13
Chapter 14
Chapter 15
Chapter 16

3) Then the 16 chapters became 11 in 2014 :

Image

4) The last Yu's tweet answer after the kickstarter :
Image
https://twitter.com/yu_suzuki_jp/status ... 9539212288

5) Nico Nico interview https://youtu.be/IntCDAc6c8Y?t=50m00s (from Switch's translation)

Chapter 1 Yokosuka.
Chapter 2 Hong Kong
Chapter 3 Train (cancelled)
Chapter 4 ?? Arrival at Guilin (moved within Chapter 2) ??
Chapter 5 Meeting Shenhua (moved or partially moved within Chapter 2)
Chapter 6 Meeting Shenhua
Chapter 7
Chapter 8
Chapter 9
Chapter 10
Chapter 11

To be precise, Shenmue I is the whole of Chapter 1, as is. And Shenmue II corresponds with the Hong Kong chapter. The part about meeting Shenhua was originally in Chapters 5 and 6. I moved just the part about meeting her to Shenmue II. Actually Chapter 3 was on a train. The scenes take place inside a train. So Chapter 3 hasn’t been used at all. In total there are 11 chapters, and so I could properly visualize how they would fit together, the first thing I did was to make a novel. So that's the form I put them in, and I use it as a base reference. It's not meant to represent the exact scenarios for the game, though. I don't use it to decide "this event goes here, this quest goes here, this flag gets set here" and so on. It doesn’t directly dictate the scenarios for the game. Rather, it's one of the things I use to drive the scenarios for Shenmue. With Shenmue III, even if I forcibly took the story through to the end of Chapter 11, well... You see, I make decisions to keep or exclude various parts as I go along. Now, at this point I don't know whether Shenmue III will have 30 hours of play time or 60 hours, but if the story is forced to advance along, I could tell that this wouldn’t produce a satisfactory result as a game. So, although unfortunately the story won’t reach the end with Shenmue III, it was a decision I made for the sake of the game's quality.


6) Mon Aug 31, 2015 Kickstarter interview
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49016
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ys ... ts/1336892
Question : Can you tell us more about the composition stage?
Yu Suzuki : Shenmue III is based on the 11 chapters created 17 years ago (1998), and each chapter is set in different regions. For example, the first chapter was set in Yokosuka, second was set in Hong Kong and so on. However with Shenmue III it won't do to complete just one chapter's worth in one region, so I have restructured the underlying story to fit the budget.
Last edited by Yokosuka on Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:43 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby johnvivant » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:13 pm

so in order from the earliest design:

- 16 chapters - in one whole game - saturn prototype - (probably not openworld)
then
- 16 chapters over 3 games - with 5/6 chapters per game. (beginning of openworld concept)
then
- reduced to 11 chapters - (still 3 games) (speculation - this is the Lan Di revenge arc) - chapters 11-16 are 'Ryo's new challenge' - maybe searching for Tentei?)
then
- development moves to dreamcast - (11 chapters - now Suzuki ideally want 5+ games each with the new intensive open world ambition)
shenmue 1 intended to be chapters 1 and 2 together (of concept sketches ) but open world turns out much richer than originally planned - chapter 1 becomes just one game - 'shenmue 1: yokosuka' then released.
then
- shenmue 2 is chapter 2 (of concept sketches) - but now split into 2 chapters (3 - Wanchai, 4 - kowloon) - then Suzuki makes the decision to include chapter 5 (of concept sketches) 'meeting shenhua in guilin' towards the end of shenmue 2 development - so he skips chapter 3 and 4 completely (of concept sketches)

then
- shenmue 3 - chapters 6 +7?
then
shenmue 4 - 8+9?
then
shenmue 5 - 10+11?

suzuki creates new chapter order as follows (The Lan Di revenge arc):

1 - Yokosuka (shenmue 1)
2. Boat (cut) (originally intended shenmue 2)
3. Aberdeen/Wan chai (hong kong) (shenmue 2)
4. Kowloon (hong kong) (shenmue 2)
5. Guilin - Bailu (shenmue 2)
6 Bailu, Choubu, (shenmue 3)
7 Baisha? (shenmue 3)
8 ? (shenmue 4)
9 ? (shenmue 4)
10 ? (shenmue 5)
11? (shenmue 5)

12-16 - Ryo's fresh start or new challenge. (shenmue 6 onwards)

maybe?

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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Amir » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:31 pm

I didn't know about the plans to have 1-5, 6-10, and 11-15 in Shenmue I, II and III at one point. I did get the impression that Shenmue I and II were originally supposed to be one game (hence all the previews having so much Shenmue II content) that got split up due to time and size constraints.

Wasn't Chapter 5 the boat trip to Guilin that got cut? I get the impression that part of Chapter 6 will be retold in Shenmue III, and I think III will be 6-10 or maybe just 9 since he has at least 1, if not 2 more games planned.

I wonder when the story will branch out? Maybe it depends on whether you choose to kill Lan Di or not?
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Sh3ppy » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:29 pm

Amir wrote:I wonder when the story will branch out? Maybe it depends on whether you choose to kill Lan Di or not?



Could the branching out of the storyline possibly be referring to when you play as different characters, thus following their own story arc? The 'perspective' system Yu has mentioned comes to mind. I could be well off though.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby shenmue852 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:31 pm

I think they always aimed for between 5 to 7 games, it would've been closer to 7 if it had become a mega hit, and 5 if it had been a normal success.

I think YS is still aiming for 5 because 2 more games is still too little to condense all that story. As far as the gameplay has gone, we are barely past the second chapter in the concept art.

I think chapter 5 from the concept art got reshuffled to be after Kowloon, and since Ren will appear in Shenmue III, some of the stuff from the concept chapters 3 and 4 might appear in Shenmue III and IV.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby SMDzero » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:25 am

I honestly feel 5 games is a perfect amount to finish the Shenmue story properly.

I think even ending it at 4 would be just fine and would have the "satisfactory" ending Suzuki referred to a long time ago. I'm confident that Shenmue 4 would end with Ryo defeating Lan Di.

The complete ending/ epilogue to the series would occur in Shenmue 5.... that's the game that would likely deal with Ryo's life after the battle with Lan Di and end with Ryo choosing a new path.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Yokosuka » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:22 am

shenmue852 wrote: I think they always aimed for between 5 to 7 games, it would've been closer to 7 if it had become a mega hit, and 5 if it had been a normal success.

I think YS is still aiming for 5 because 2 more games is still too little to condense all that story. As far as the gameplay has gone, we are barely past the second chapter in the concept art.

I think chapter 5 from the concept art got reshuffled to be after Kowloon, and since Ren will appear in Shenmue III, some of the stuff from the concept chapters 3 and 4 might appear in Shenmue III and IV.


But why did he say the opposite in the DC mag ? Did not seem a wrong translation.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Monkei » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:29 pm

I think the whole chapter thing is just really vague and not set in stone at all. Suzuki seems to be adapting and modifying it during development of each installment. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Yokosuka » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:31 am

I begin to think that the 11 chapters have always been the canon from the original novel and that the 16 chapters was a cut adapted for the Dreamcast/Dreamcast 2 versions. I can see a new number of chapters suited for the PS4/PS5 games.

Although there is no need to overstate all this stuff, it's just a question of cut from the same story.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Zoltor » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:45 am

I Pretty much believe it has always really been the same(with just minor edits, here, and there), just originally Yu made each chapter shorter(well minus the very first variation, where that mad scientist of a developer was going to release all 16 chapters as a single game ofcourse), so naturally it required more numbered chapters to tell the same story.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby shenmue852 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:52 am

Sh3ppy wrote:
Amir wrote:I wonder when the story will branch out? Maybe it depends on whether you choose to kill Lan Di or not?



Could the branching out of the storyline possibly be referring to when you play as different characters, thus following their own story arc? The 'perspective' system Yu has mentioned comes to mind. I could be well off though.


I think it's only during certain parts of the game that you'll play as other characters/have a choice of characters.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Hyo Razuki » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:52 pm

Great thread, thanks for summing it up. :) So with the 3rd chapter scratched, we're probably in chapter 4 now, maybe even 5. From what Yu said yesterday, it seems S3 will contain more than three chapters. However, it's not set in stone. You can see there has been quite some reshuffling, concerning Shenhua.

Maybe Yu just wanted to focus more on Shenhua and Ryo and not so much on the location of Guilin.

Well, perhaps one day we shall see how it all turns out. I hope so. :)
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby joka » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:53 pm

Pulling it all together gives you a much better understanding of the process and the changes that have occurred in the lifetime of Shenmue thus far... No wonder Yu is still making changes.

Couple of things this made me think about-

1. We naturally think of chapters as equal length/size but they're really not- the missing boat/train chapters would've only been small for instance so anyone getting concerned about Yu cramming it all in (of which I was one) should bare that in mind.
2. That GDC art I've never looked at closely before but that 4th image along the top looks like it represents the 4 bosses referenced for S3 (assuming Niao Sun replaced one of them?)

Anyways thanks for posting Yokosuka!
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby shenmue852 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:53 pm

Yokosuka wrote:
shenmue852 wrote: I think they always aimed for between 5 to 7 games, it would've been closer to 7 if it had become a mega hit, and 5 if it had been a normal success.

I think YS is still aiming for 5 because 2 more games is still too little to condense all that story. As far as the gameplay has gone, we are barely past the second chapter in the concept art.

I think chapter 5 from the concept art got reshuffled to be after Kowloon, and since Ren will appear in Shenmue III, some of the stuff from the concept chapters 3 and 4 might appear in Shenmue III and IV.


But why did he say the opposite in the DC mag ? Did not seem a wrong translation.


sorry the opposite of what? what did he say in DC mag?

I remember reading that he said the train chapter was cut from Shenmue II. According to the GDC chapter outline, the train chapter is supposed to occur either before or shortly after Ryo meets Shenhua, so either it'll be worked into Shenmue III or cut out altogether.
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Re: When Suzuki talked about 16 chapters

Postby Yokosuka » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:02 pm

I wonder if my thread is enough clear...

After Shenmue 1 release, Yu said Shenmue 3 was intended to be the last episode. That's why a lot of medias and fans still think Shenmue is a trilogy. Infact, the number of episodes has never been fixed.
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