New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby James Brown » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:08 pm

That all sounds really good, apart from when he touched on the new battle system:

"However, this time I will be creating battles to suit Shenmue 3 right from the beginning. I'm aiming for straightforward but exhilarating battles in which the action is the main highlight, not battles which are made up of extremely detailed physics."

It sounds like he's stripping away what made Shenmue's fighting engine so good, and making it very basic? Having said that I think we're all too quick to speculate on things he's saying in about 2 lines :P
Last edited by James Brown on Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James Brown
"After Burner...Great!"
"After Burner...Great!"
 
Joined: March 2003
Location: England
XBL: skilljimmeh
Favorite title: Shenmue

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:10 pm

Thanks Switch.

He has me iffy about the battle system now, I mean what does he mean, focusing on the action, opposed to the physics side of things. Frankly I think that's a bad idea, because the fighting in Shenmue 3 will end up looking just like the fighting in any dime a dozen action game out there.

He should just upgrade the fighting system from the past games(make the moves more fluid, and speed up the animation alittle, boom done), no need to reinvent the wheel. Making it less focused on physics, will lead to making such seem less realistic, as well as making the moves them selves stand out less.


I'm really loving the fishing part time job though, however It's gonna come down to how It's implemented. Lets hope it doesn't use some tedious, and rather silly QTE mechanic like the carrying crate part time job from Shenmue 2 had lol(Shenmue 2 is just about as perfect as it can be, know what's keeping it from perfection, that stupid as hell job lol, it doesn't even make any sense)

Assuming that the Fishing is awesome, I can forsee a lot of cool things, side quests, and such tying into it.

To James Brown: Yea sigh, I didn't like the sound of this new battle system at all.
Last edited by Zoltor on Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zoltor has received a thanks from: James Brown
User avatar
Zoltor
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: August 2015

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Giorgio » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:12 pm

Thank you very much, Switch! It was really informative! Yu knows what he's doing!
User avatar
Giorgio
"After Burner...Great!"
"After Burner...Great!"
 
Joined: February 2009
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Yakuza series

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby shredingskin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:14 pm

I don't know if basic or just more arcadelike.

I seems like moves are still going to be a thing, and since Shenmue is a martial arts journey, doesn't seem very likely that it will be less fleshed out.

I think it'll have to do with the grappling, dodge and the complex moves/combos that require more timing, and trying to go for something easier to chain and easier to pull off.

I can do arm break fire once in a blue moon, and some boss fights are really about the timing of dodging and counter attack, maybe he wants more fast paced combat.
User avatar
shredingskin
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: Argentina
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Some indie games.

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Yokosuka » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:18 pm

James Brown wrote: That all sounds really good, apart from when he touched on the new battle system:

"However, this time I will be creating battles to suit Shenmue 3 right from the beginning. I'm aiming for straightforward but exhilarating battles in which the action is the main highlight, not battles which are made up of extremely detailed physics."

It sounds like he's stripping away what made Shenmue's fighting engine so good, and making it very basic? Having said that I think we're all too quick to speculate on things he's saying in about 2 lines :P


He already talked about the "entertainment vs physics" in his Tokyo Otaku Mode interview :

SUZUKI : Rather than full contact fights, such as in Virtua Fighter, where you move with different physics depending on where you were hit, I’m thinking more along the line of entertainment. For instance, if you hit somewhere around this place, your opponent will fly in a cool way. I think that games with complex reality resembling full contact fighting are most effective when they are properly directed besides including motion capture. Plus it wouldn’t be so interesting if it was the same as other battle games, so I want to make it more distinctive.



Sounds a battle system closer to Dead Or Alive 5 than Virtua Fighter but with the Shenmue moves pace.

I think whatever the direction he takes, the result is going to be awesome.
User avatar
Yokosuka
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: August 2014
Location: France
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Rocket League

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:28 pm

Yokosuka wrote:
James Brown wrote: That all sounds really good, apart from when he touched on the new battle system:

"However, this time I will be creating battles to suit Shenmue 3 right from the beginning. I'm aiming for straightforward but exhilarating battles in which the action is the main highlight, not battles which are made up of extremely detailed physics."

It sounds like he's stripping away what made Shenmue's fighting engine so good, and making it very basic? Having said that I think we're all too quick to speculate on things he's saying in about 2 lines :P


He already talked about the "entertainment vs physics" in his Tokyo Otaku Mode interview :

SUZUKI : Rather than full contact fights, such as in Virtua Fighter, where you move with different physics depending on where you were hit, I’m thinking more along the line of entertainment. For instance, if you hit somewhere around this place, your opponent will fly in a cool way. I think that games with complex reality resembling full contact fighting are most effective when they are properly directed besides including motion capture. Plus it wouldn’t be so interesting if it was the same as other battle games, so I want to make it more distinctive.



Sounds a battle system closer to Dead Or Alive 5 than Virtua Fighter but with the Shenmue moves pace.

I think whatever the direction he takes, the result is going to be awesome.


Sigh I remember that part of that interview now, It's so beyond being a bad idea, It's not funny.

To Yu: I know you watch Chinese martial arts movies, and wuxia series, now tell me, what do you enjoy more, the fake wannabe matrix, fantasy action crap or martial arts fights that look realistic/100% authentic?
User avatar
Zoltor
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: August 2015

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Ziming » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:33 pm

I have been looking into PayPal in Japan and they are still fairly new and trying to gain ground. I'm not very confident he'll see much support from fans there. Read this interview:

https://www.japantoday.com/smartphone/v ... s-in-japan
User avatar
Ziming
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: November 2003

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:42 pm

Ziming wrote: I have been looking into PayPal in Japan and they are still fairly new and trying to gain ground. I'm not very confident he'll see much support from fans there. Read this interview:

https://www.japantoday.com/smartphone/v ... s-in-japan


Yea, as far as the Japanese are concerned, PCs are only for playing MMOs, and banking(they're only now, "starting" to figure out you can use a PC for things like Ebay, and paypal), and nevermind the fact that the series has never done good in Japan anyway(chapter one take place in modern day Japan, yet no Godzilla/demons trying to destroy it, and the rest of the series tames place in China=enough said. Seriously it was doomed to be unpopular in Japan).
User avatar
Zoltor
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: August 2015

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Yokosuka » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:45 pm

Zoltor wrote:
Sigh I remember that part of that interview now, It's so beyond being a bad idea, It's not funny.

To Yu: I know you watch Chinese martial arts movies, and wuxia series, now tell me, what do you enjoy more, the fake wannabe matrix, fantasy action crap or martial arts fights that look realistic/100% authentic?


Look like accomplish a realistic battle system like Virtua Fighter cost a lot of money because of the motion capture, so Yu would have no other choice to make some compromises I'm afraid. Our expectations are high and Yu is great but he's not a magician. Look at the credits of a modern VS fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 or Soul Calibur, the needed staff is huge. And unsurprisingly, Sega is likely to not give him the Virtua Fighter 5 engine for Shenmue 3.

Or perhaps we exaggerate again his thoughts. He is a gamedesigner and his words have not the same weight than ours. I remember Yu saying Virtua Fighter 2 and Shenmue have a completely different approach (one is focused on timing and the other on decision) but can the players do the same statement ? It's hard to make the right interpretation of all this stuff.
User avatar
Yokosuka
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: August 2014
Location: France
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Rocket League

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:58 pm

Yokosuka wrote:
Zoltor wrote:
Sigh I remember that part of that interview now, It's so beyond being a bad idea, It's not funny.

To Yu: I know you watch Chinese martial arts movies, and wuxia series, now tell me, what do you enjoy more, the fake wannabe matrix, fantasy action crap or martial arts fights that look realistic/100% authentic?


Look like accomplish a realistic battle system like Virtua Fighter cost a lot of money because of the motion capture, so Yu would have no other choice to make some compromises I'm afraid. Our expectations are high and Yu is great but he's not a magician. Look at the credits of a modern VS fighting game like Virtua Fighter 5 or Soul Calibur, the needed staff is huge. And unsurprisingly, Sega is likely to not give him the Virtua Fighter 5 engine for Shenmue 3.

Or perhaps we exaggerate again his thoughts. He is a gamedesigner and his words have not the same weight than ours. I remember Yu saying Virtua Fighter 2 and Shenmue have a completely different approach (one is focused on timing and the other on decision) but can the players do the same statement ? It's hard to make the right interpretation of all this stuff.


Shouldn't the Advanced fighting system stretch goal cover that, if not, and either way, we're going to end up with a watered down battle system, I would've rather the funds go to something more productive altogether, like more area expansions, mini games/side quests, ect.

Sigh the fighting system, and it being so realistic, is a pretty damn aspect, that helps define a Shenmue game. I'm so not looking forward to a fighting system that looks like a dime a dozen fighter, but just has you hit the Shenmue button combos, it feels like just a part of a fighting system.

What made Shenmue games great, is all of the aspects further emphasizing this is a real world, and everything just constantly adds to driving that point home. If he's willing to cripple the fighting system like that, I'm very worried now. I thought only the open world size was questionable, and that's what they would mainly scale based on funding, but watering down the fighting system, and who knows what else sigh.
Last edited by Zoltor on Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Zoltor
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: August 2015

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Yokosuka » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:21 pm

According his silence before we reached the Advanced Free Battle stretch goal, I think Shenmue III would have simply re-used the Virtua Fighter 2 system in this case with minor adjustments.
But I disagree when you say it would have been enough for Shenmue 3. The original system was awesome but it has a lot of drawbacks now and is aged from 1995 (!) so it's difficult to wholly discredit his vision, even more since we don't know exactly his purpose and the result that could be done.

If the staff could get close to this level of awesomeness, I would be completely pleased :
Image
User avatar
Yokosuka
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: August 2014
Location: France
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Rocket League

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:43 pm

Yokosuka wrote: According his silence before we reached the Advanced Free Battle stretch goal, I think Shenmue III would have simply re-used the Virtua Fighter 2 system in this case with minor adjustments.
But I disagree when you say it would have been enough for Shenmue 3. The original system was awesome but it has a lot of drawbacks now and is aged from 1995 (!) so it's difficult to wholly discredit his vision, even more since we don't know exactly his purpose and the result that could be done.

If the staff could get close to this level of awesomeness, I would be completely pleased :
Image


As much as I think it would be nice to improve upon the original Shenmue game's fighting, if It's a choice between just using that or going in a different direction almost completely loosing all focus on what fighting is suppose to be like in a Shenmue game, I say fine copy paste the Shenmue 1/2 fighting mechanics into Shenmue 3(then all you need to do, is create the few brand new moves that exist in 3).

If Yu did this, he would not only save a lot of money, and time, but he wouldn't need to brutally butcher a feature to do such either.

PS. That's Shenmue MMO Isn't it, there's Isn't much shown of it in general, but even in the little clip you posted, especially the one where the guy goes flying forward is weirding me out(not like the other is super realistic either, but anyway), and even the way Ryo is kicking is looking so unnatural(although that could just be a optical illusions created by the unrealistic physics/lack there of I should say.
User avatar
Zoltor
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: August 2015

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby shredingskin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:17 pm

I think you guys are kinda freaking out over nothing (yet).

You can have very complex systems but accessible and fast paced (most 2D fighting do this), you can have a style similar to DOA that has some of the same systems but exchanging the "jump" for lateral movement for evasion leaving you open for other attacks, or a soul calibur where the importance is between vertical or horizontal strikes/defense.

Even if you really cared about the "shenmue system" it's a lot less complex (and kinda broken) than those games, you can just wait to dodge/block (with just one button) then elbow assault the fuck out of everyone.

It's really cool to have tons of moves for a single character, but that also means combos don't have much of an importance (for technical reasons). So that leads to a more blocking/waiting game trying to execute what you fancy (specially since some moves are not really balanced).

Yu knows games, I wouldn't want a Yakuza style of gameplay (it's really gratifying, but not a part of the Shen style), or a dinasty warriors press AAAAAAXXXX to do infinite combos or that "target system" we have on batman and sleeping dogs, but we can expect an indepth realistic action system that can be more enjoyable.

The guy knows about martial arts, has a good vision on what Shenmue is supposed to be, and has had years to think good stuff.
User avatar
shredingskin
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: Argentina
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Some indie games.

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby Zoltor » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:35 pm

shredingskin wrote: I think you guys are kinda freaking out over nothing (yet).

You can have very complex systems but accessible and fast paced (most 2D fighting do this), you can have a style similar to DOA that has some of the same systems but exchanging the "jump" for lateral movement for evasion leaving you open for other attacks, or a soul calibur where the importance is between vertical or horizontal strikes/defense.

Even if you really cared about the "shenmue system" it's a lot less complex (and kinda broken) than those games, you can just wait to dodge/block (with just one button) then elbow assault the fuck out of everyone.

It's really cool to have tons of moves for a single character, but that also means combos don't have much of an importance (for technical reasons). So that leads to a more blocking/waiting game trying to execute what you fancy (specially since some moves are not really balanced).

Yu knows games, I wouldn't want a Yakuza style of gameplay (it's really gratifying, but not a part of the Shen style), or a dinasty warriors press AAAAAAXXXX to do infinite combos or that "target system" we have on batman and sleeping dogs, but we can expect an indepth realistic action system that can be more enjoyable.

The guy knows about martial arts, has a good vision on what Shenmue is supposed to be, and has had years to think good stuff.



You are missing what Yu is claiming to "want" to do is instead of going for realistic, he just wants characters to look cool when getting kicked or whatnot. In otherwords, just like a crappy modern martial arts movie with CG, and whatnot. I'm sure I don't have to express how much real martial arts fans absolutely loath that modern crap.

On a different note, speaking of CG, Yu's been having a problem getting the Ryo head to look right(Kind of ironic, since that's the whole reason the clay sculptures were made in the first place), why is that? He has the original clay sculptures, he should go off of them(although judging by Shenhua's face, I suspect he's trying to do this all from scratch sigh, organic is a good thing, why is he trying to do it all in pure CG, I'm confused).


The Shenmue games are heavily about detail, from major to minor, they are very important, and sadly it looks like Yu Isn't even thinking about detail, he's more focused on changing things, and wanting to take the Shenmue series in a new direction, which is a very dangerous train of thought.
User avatar
Zoltor
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: August 2015

Re: New Famitsu Interview with Yu (Sept 8th)

Postby shredingskin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:01 pm

The pulley systen was used in HK martial arts all the time, and he really like those. It's not that much about how much they fly, it's about how good can you feel (and if you can believe it).

The original reactions in Shenmue were like that also, they would do 720s before hitting the ground, but also a block move implied a 1 second "stunned" time.

Most of the moves in Shenmue are quite impractical and unrealistic, we believe those, and it's ok.

In Shenmue there are "blocking enemies" that would block you most of your attacks favouring counter attacks, that's cool from an strategy point, but from a gaming side it's "that guy did that slap motion and I can't do anything for a couple of seconds".

There's this thing in videogames theory called kinastethics (or another bullshit term), about how "good" it feels to land a blow, to walk in water, to punch a breakeable thing, etc. Pretty much "make it feel nice" when the character does something good. Shenmue has a lot of this, but it doesn't mean it can't be improved. For example (again) elbow assault had that concrete sound (from bajiquan that likes to make a lot of sound), but by the type of move it was simply too easy to pull, too powerful and too fast (with little recovery time).

There are great stuff in Shenmue, for example a high kick and ryo crouches (it feels great), but at the same time the same move (button), can just block (and it doesn't feel that great, and that goes also for enemies).

There are a lot of ways to make things feel cool, without losing the realism (pretend realism), and make things flow.

Let's be sincere, in Shenmue (specially II), there were the 1 hit KO opponents and the ones you kinda wait to counter most of the time. That is interesting in some way, but it doesn't feel THAT cool. I think there's room for improvement.

Shenmue I/II were great, but SIII could be greater (at least in some regards). Kinda funny since despite all the improvements of SII I still like Shen I quite a bit more.
User avatar
shredingskin
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: Argentina
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Some indie games.

PreviousNext

Return to Shenmue III

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000-
ShenmueDojo.net