Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby darksniper » Tue May 30, 2017 8:45 pm

Let's get back to discussing Shenmue III. Rationally.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Yokosuka » Tue May 30, 2017 8:52 pm

Rikitatsu wrote: People who aren't satisfied with the model, can you elaborate in detail why? Most of the posts I've read were "It doesn't feel like Shenmue" or "It's too cartoony"... I'm trying to understand why people would think so, and the only thing I can see is the skin shader being a little plasticky... That's pretty much it. And that is something that can easily be improved.

The face, proportions, and clothing are fine.The overall design is 100% the Shenmue I know and love. They translated the design from concept art to 3D model incredibly well. He is supposed to be this weird, overly muscular character with a creepy smile, I can't imagine him looking better than he already does in 3D. This bodes well for the rest of the characters, I say.


People already made some good explanation in the previous pages. Someone said the issue is that the model was the biggest character he's ever seen in Shenmue. I think he's not so far from the truth.

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Image

Don't you find these characters thinner than the new model? Me, yes and it's disturbing because these guys are supposed to be literal beasts in Shenmue II !

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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby mrandyk » Tue May 30, 2017 8:58 pm

I've come back to this video 4 or 5 times since it was uploaded, and all I really feel is indifference. I have a hard time picturing Ryo roundhousing this guy but it could be because I don't have any familiar characters to compare him with yet. Dude is obscenely buff but not so out of line with characters we have seen previously.

The video of our character limbering up seemed very uncomfortable. I think it's because he never moves his head or changes facial expressions.

As always, I'll reserve full judgement until I see the final product.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Peter » Tue May 30, 2017 9:00 pm

That's what I was about to post....

I wonder if people would feel differently if he was seen throwing punches, or looking generally badass. A muscular guy doing jumping jacks, despite doing it for polygon testing, does influence the thoughts of the character presented as is.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Tue May 30, 2017 9:02 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:It's just the pose that's making it look awkward (They played some stock animations to try and find any issues with the model) I don't see anything wrong with the proportions themselves, I assume the red line implies you think his arm is relatively short compared to his body? It doesn't look that short to me, especially when you look at it from another angle.

Image


The red line implies his forearms are bigger than legs, dude's hands are also too big. Agree to disagree, no disrespect.

Sorry for the bad photoshop skills :lol: I reduced his hand size and put the original hand size next to his head for comparison.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Suzuki Yu » Tue May 30, 2017 9:21 pm

Rikitatsu wrote: People who aren't satisfied with the model, can you elaborate in detail why? Most of the posts I've read were "It doesn't feel like Shenmue" or "It's too cartoony"... I'm trying to understand why people would think so, and the only thing I can see is the skin shader being a little plasticky... That's pretty much it. And that is something that can easily be improved.

The face, proportions, and clothing are fine.The overall design is 100% the Shenmue I know and love. They translated the design from concept art to 3D model incredibly well. He is supposed to be this weird, overly muscular character with a creepy smile, I can't imagine him looking better than he already does in 3D. This bodes well for the rest of the characters, I say.

i can't agree more.

i think they did a phenomenal job with this Model to the point i am so confident right now more than ever that the rest of the models will get the exact great & detailed treatment that this model has. and therefore i can't wait to see the familiar characters and how they would look like using the new technology.

some people here are bringing up the old shitty placeholder models and argue about it as if the new model is in the same category? no it's not it's faaaaaaaaaaar superior! it's not even has to be refined a lot in the final product.

as a matter of fact i was really concerned with what we saw before and even though i knew those were placeholders i was questioning myself if the team had what it takes to make great modeling job until i saw this video! in fact this video is one of the best videos they released so far for this reason.

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote:
Image
Image

Proportions are far from fine in my opinion. I feel like in the past the 3D modelers tried to ground the concept art (the Joy example was good), but now they make it look even more outlandish hence it doesn't mesh well with the environment.

Image


i don't see the problem really regarding the proportions.
this guy supposed to be incredibly muscular based on the original artwork. (it's not like real men can't be like this) and they did a phenomenal job translating that into 3D. does anyone supposed to be like that? of course not. but the message i am getting from this video is that whomever is responsible for this model know his work very well and can do a great job at the other characters. even the body animation was superb.

as for the character in that picture being out of place?
first of all you can't just take a random background picture of the game which is unfinished yet and mash it up with this new model! you made this picture out of place.
secondly i am far more pleased with the work done in this model than the environment in that picture, the latter need more work not the other way around.
Last edited by Suzuki Yu on Tue May 30, 2017 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Rikitatsu » Tue May 30, 2017 9:25 pm

Yokosuka wrote:
Rikitatsu wrote: People who aren't satisfied with the model, can you elaborate in detail why? Most of the posts I've read were "It doesn't feel like Shenmue" or "It's too cartoony"... I'm trying to understand why people would think so, and the only thing I can see is the skin shader being a little plasticky... That's pretty much it. And that is something that can easily be improved.

The face, proportions, and clothing are fine.The overall design is 100% the Shenmue I know and love. They translated the design from concept art to 3D model incredibly well. He is supposed to be this weird, overly muscular character with a creepy smile, I can't imagine him looking better than he already does in 3D. This bodes well for the rest of the characters, I say.


People already made some good explanation in the previous pages. Someone said the issue is that the model was the biggest character he's ever seen in Shenmue. I think he's not so far from the truth.

Image
Image

Don't you find these characters thinner than the new model? Me, yes and it's disturbing because these guys are supposed to be literal beasts in Shenmue II !

He doesn't look as far off from the ones you posted, they're in the same ballpark. Shenmue 2 had some pretty crazy body types too, obviously there was Dou Niu, but there were other minor characters as well. Like this Arm Wrestler

Image

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote:The red line implies his forearms are bigger than legs, dude's hands are also too big. Agree to disagree, no disrespect.

Sorry for the bad photoshop skills :lol: I reduced his hand size and put the original hand size next to his head for comparison.
Image

Dude just skips leg day. :D
I don't think his forearms are bigger than his legs, he looks pretty thick down there too...ahem.

And yes his hands are a little big, but not outside the realm of Shenmue's style. I hate to bring Dou Niu again, but his hands are also bigger than his head. It's not unusual.


My point is, he is stylized, but just within the limits of what we expect from Shenmue. I'd totally picture this guy working at Chobou's port or something. He doesn't look Street Fighter to me.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Tue May 30, 2017 9:37 pm

Suzuki Yu wrote:
i don't see the problem really regarding the proportions.
this guy supposed to be incredibly muscular based on the original artwork. (it's not like real men can't be like this) and they did a phenomenal job translating that into 3D. does anyone supposed to be like that? of course not. but the message i am getting from this video is that whomever is responsible for this model know his work very well and can do a great job at the other characters.


This is prime arnold
Image
Forearms just don't look like that

Something like this would be more fitting in my opinion, still buff but not over the top...
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Suzuki Yu » Tue May 30, 2017 9:37 pm

Yokosuka wrote:
Rikitatsu wrote: People who aren't satisfied with the model, can you elaborate in detail why? Most of the posts I've read were "It doesn't feel like Shenmue" or "It's too cartoony"... I'm trying to understand why people would think so, and the only thing I can see is the skin shader being a little plasticky... That's pretty much it. And that is something that can easily be improved.

The face, proportions, and clothing are fine.The overall design is 100% the Shenmue I know and love. They translated the design from concept art to 3D model incredibly well. He is supposed to be this weird, overly muscular character with a creepy smile, I can't imagine him looking better than he already does in 3D. This bodes well for the rest of the characters, I say.


People already made some good explanation in the previous pages. Someone said the issue is that the model was the biggest character he's ever seen in Shenmue. I think he's not so far from the truth.

Image
Image

Don't you find these characters thinner than the new model? Me, yes and it's disturbing because these guys are supposed to be literal beasts in Shenmue II !

i don't see how is this a problem?
what if the new character is the biggest muscular in the series yet?
people should expect new type of characters in a series this vast.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Rikitatsu » Tue May 30, 2017 9:53 pm

Suzuki Yu wrote: but the message i am getting from this video is that whomever is responsible for this model know his work very well and can do a great job at the other characters.

This is a actually a great point that should be stressed.

The argument that the model looks "cheap" because YsNET lacks funds or they don't have such "superior" 3D artists from the Yakuza studios falls flat when you realize the artist behind this model did his job splendidly; He perfectly brought that character from 2D to 3D. Bringing the Yakuza 3D artists or throwing more funds at the project will not make this character less muscular and more realistic, because that's not the style this character was designed with.

He was designed to be muscular, thick, and slightly exaggerated. And the 3D model nails that down.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Yokosuka » Tue May 30, 2017 9:57 pm

I don't think Dou Niu and the Village People wrestler are comparable. They're more obese than excessively muscled. You may easily find or imagine their equivalent in real life. Characters in Shenmue were all incredibly credible. I couldn't say much for the new model, that's why you could see the word "cartoonish" through the thread. But maybe particularities of Asian corpulence are distorting my conception of human body. I always viewed Ryo as taller than he is. I mean, the new model is maybe smaller than he looks so the muscles are likely to be perceived in a deceptive way.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Jibby » Tue May 30, 2017 10:03 pm

Please people, have faith. Realise that a screenshot from the development environment will look completely different from the compiled game, remember that we don't know where or when this character will be introduced, remember that the game is still in early development, but most importantly remember that Shenmue III is REAL!

Shenmue III is going to look different. It's going to look very different because it's not being programmed in 2001 and it's not running on a Dreamcast. But I don't care. It's common sense that there's going to be stylistic differences and I'd much, much rather have that than no Shenmue III. But now is NOT the time to judge these differences because the game is in such an early stage of development. When you get your hands on a copy of Shenmue III and boot it up for the first time, that will be the time to judge.

But until then lets remember what's truly important. Let's remember E3 2015 when we all lost our fucking shit when Yu Suzuki walked out on stage and announced the game. Let's remember that one day, the third installment of Shenmue will be posted through our letter boxes, and after over a decade, we'll actually get to play it.

The amount of toxic posts I've read tonight is disgraceful and I honestly wonder why some people are pumped for the game when they can't accept that there's going to be change. If you can't accept that, I have news for you; you're probably going to hate Shenmue III, and that would be a real shame.

I don't like ranting like this, but seriously, come on. What happened to that sense of community that these forums once had. I would have thought that the announcement of III would bring everyone together further, but it seems to have divided us beyond belief and I don't like it.

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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby Bluecast » Tue May 30, 2017 10:12 pm

Jibby wrote: Please people, have faith. Realise that a screenshot from the development environment will look completely different from the compiled game, remember that we don't know where or when this character will be introduced, remember that the game is still in early development, but most importantly remember that Shenmue III is REAL!

Shenmue III is going to look different. It's going to look very different because it's not being programmed in 2001 and it's not running on a Dreamcast. But I don't care. It's common sense that there's going to be stylistic differences and I'd much, much rather have that than no Shenmue III. But now is NOT the time to judge these differences because the game is in such an early stage of development. When you get your hands on a copy of Shenmue III and boot it up for the first time, that will be the time to judge.

But until then lets remember what's truly important. Let's remember E3 2015 when we all lost our fucking shit when Yu Suzuki walked out on stage and announced the game. Let's remember that one day, the third installment of Shenmue will be posted through our letter boxes, and after over a decade, we'll actually get to play it.

The amount of toxic posts I've read tonight is disgraceful and I honestly wonder why some people are pumped for the game when they can't accept that there's going to be change. If you can't accept that, I have news for you; you're probably going to hate Shenmue III, and that would be a real shame.

I don't like ranting like this, but seriously, come on. What happened to that sense of community that these forums once had. I would have thought that the announcement of III would bring everyone together further, but it seems to have divided us beyond belief and I don't like it.

Fully agree. We have wanted for so long finally get the news and some hype themselves too much. Reality hits them in the face and they feel let down that it doesn't look like what they imagined. It's bets to keep expectations in check and wait and see more from this game. I and many others before me and after brought up DC technical limitations. I think it's falling on some deaf ears right now. Is it too much to ask for another KS update? :lol: Like of a environment because then people would shift their attention there. No? Ah well. Until this this will carry on for a while.
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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby shredingskin » Tue May 30, 2017 10:17 pm

Rikitatsu wrote: People who aren't satisfied with the model, can you elaborate in detail why? Most of the posts I've read were "It doesn't feel like Shenmue" or "It's too cartoony"... I'm trying to understand why people would think so, and the only thing I can see is the skin shader being a little plasticky... That's pretty much it. And that is something that can easily be improved.


It's all subjective, since it's a matter of taste, but for me:
Bad skin shader (also hair) and a little bit too much over the top facial expression (very cartoony), and body proportions (really, he looks like hugo from SF, and that's a comically big character, not even dou niu has those kind of proportions) but mostly the fear that this type of look is what they are aiming for (I know we still don't know, but it's pretty much the most "tangible" thing we actually have to talk about as for today).

I don't understand a lot of people saying they love the character, "this is what was always supposed to look like", and then saying "obviously it's still in development and they'll fix it"... Is it the way it should look like or is it very early wip ?? :lol:

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Re: Shenmue III Update #67: Developer Room Update 3

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Tue May 30, 2017 10:36 pm

There is nothing "toxic" about people critiquing the content, as long everyone is civil about it. At least that's what I think.

One could argue that singing kumbaya no matter what until the game drops to avoid negative opinions and then freaking the F out would be more damaging.

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