Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translated]

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Game Watch Japan Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom 2017

Postby TwiceFriedRice » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:08 pm

Centrale wrote:
Switch wrote: Here it is, a full translation of the GAME Watch interview. Enjoy!

http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/0 ... uzuki.html


Very interesting... this seems to confirm that the fighting controls will be radically different than what we experienced in the previous games. Maybe something that's more simplified, like pressing a button for attack or defend that will unleash a flurry of appropriate moves, rather than combinations of punch/kick/guard buttons? Just speculating.


God, I hope not. The last thing we need is the series to dumb down to the mindless button mashing of Jade Empire. I hope it's complex. The battle system is one of the most intriguing aspects of the series.
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Re: Game Watch Japan Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom 2017

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:25 pm

Centrale wrote:
Switch wrote: Here it is, a full translation of the GAME Watch interview. Enjoy!

http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/0 ... uzuki.html


Very interesting... this seems to confirm that the fighting controls will be radically different than what we experienced in the previous games. Maybe something that's more simplified, like pressing a button for attack or defend that will unleash a flurry of appropriate moves, rather than combinations of punch/kick/guard buttons? Just speculating.


I really, really, REALLY hope this isn't true. I don't want a simplified combat system, I want a deep, complex and technical one. It should evolve from Shenmue and Shenmue II. It better not be similar to the combat systems of the Batman Arkham series or Sleeping Dogs because their combat was pretty dull and bad. They are examples of oversimplified controls and I do not want that at all.

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Re: Game Watch Japan Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom 2017

Postby Centrale » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:26 pm

Here's the passage where he speaks about it:

Q: Shenmue and Shenmue II were action adventures that retained the atmosphere of your masterpiece, Virtua Fighter. What kind of genre will Shenmue III be?

YS: This time it won't be Virtua. Shenmue used the Virtua Fighter fighting engine, and Shenmue II the Virtua Fighter II engine for battles. However this time, we aren't using the Virtua engine, but building an original one from scratch. It's hand-made.

Q: What will one of the main characteristics of the series, the fighting element, be like?

YS: I don't think it will be an action game that demands the input of critical commands. At its foundation Shenmue is a thinking-style game, and what's important is not skill at timing commands correctly, but decision making. For some time I have thought that the Virtua engine doesn't really suit it, so we're now in the middle of making a new battle engine.

Q: That will be something to watch for! Approximately when will the new battle engine be complete?

YS: It's hard to say. That depends on how much we enhance it.

Q: It's not something that could be called a new Virtua engine, is it.

YS: No. It will be something of a completely different type. With Shenmue, fighting is no more than one of its elements. It's a tale of adventure that's based around martial arts, so the fighting aspect is bound to appear in it, but it's a matter of how dramatically, and how cinematically it can entertain the player. I want to make it so that even people who aren't good at fighting games can press buttons - without worrying too much about which, to a certain extent - for the story to advance.
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Re: Game Watch Japan Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom 2017

Postby staplepuffs27 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:40 pm

Shenmue_Legend wrote:
Centrale wrote:
Switch wrote: Here it is, a full translation of the GAME Watch interview. Enjoy!

http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/0 ... uzuki.html


Very interesting... this seems to confirm that the fighting controls will be radically different than what we experienced in the previous games. Maybe something that's more simplified, like pressing a button for attack or defend that will unleash a flurry of appropriate moves, rather than combinations of punch/kick/guard buttons? Just speculating.


I really, really, REALLY hope this isn't true. I don't want a simplified combat system, I want a deep, complex and technical one. It should evolve from Shenmue and Shenmue II. It better not be similar to the combat systems of the Batman Arkham series or Sleeping Dogs because their combat was pretty dull and bad. They are examples of oversimplified controls and I do not want that at all.
I don't think it will be simple to be honest. The scene with the fisherman looked like an old Shenmue training session where you learn a new complex move. Yu has already said there will be teachers, so it can't be that simple.
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Re: Game Watch Japan Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom 2017

Postby masterchan777 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:49 pm

Switch wrote: Here it is, a full translation of the GAME Watch interview. Enjoy!

http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/0 ... uzuki.html

Image

(masterchan, you might like to put this link in the OP)

Thank you once again Switch for all the fantastic work ..
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Re: Game Watch Japan Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom 2017

Postby staplepuffs27 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:59 pm

Centrale wrote: Here's the passage where he speaks about it:

Q: Shenmue and Shenmue II were action adventures that retained the atmosphere of your masterpiece, Virtua Fighter. What kind of genre will Shenmue III be?

YS: This time it won't be Virtua. Shenmue used the Virtua Fighter fighting engine, and Shenmue II the Virtua Fighter II engine for battles. However this time, we aren't using the Virtua engine, but building an original one from scratch. It's hand-made.

Q: What will one of the main characteristics of the series, the fighting element, be like?

YS: I don't think it will be an action game that demands the input of critical commands. At its foundation Shenmue is a thinking-style game, and what's important is not skill at timing commands correctly, but decision making. For some time I have thought that the Virtua engine doesn't really suit it, so we're now in the middle of making a new battle engine.

Q: That will be something to watch for! Approximately when will the new battle engine be complete?

YS: It's hard to say. That depends on how much we enhance it.

Q: It's not something that could be called a new Virtua engine, is it.

YS: No. It will be something of a completely different type. With Shenmue, fighting is no more than one of its elements. It's a tale of adventure that's based around martial arts, so the fighting aspect is bound to appear in it, but it's a matter of how dramatically, and how cinematically it can entertain the player. I want to make it so that even people who aren't good at fighting games can press buttons - without worrying too much about which, to a certain extent - for the story to advance.
Ugh. The average casual gamer is not gonna be playing Shenmue 3. We can handle a complex fighting engine.

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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:13 pm

R.E combat.

Yu has said for a while Shenmue III's controls would be simplified-

- but before people start losing their shit, that's not synonymous with dumbing down the gameplay. In fact, Yu has talked about other complexities like strategy, physics and environment interactions, breaking up groups of enemies into more manageable pockets, etc. It seems like Yu will be asking players to fight more with their heads rather than their fingers, if you get my meaning.

He's also said before that the stretch goals for combat were basically things done in the older games but will be revised and made more sophisticated with modern technology, so it's not like an enormous departure in some respects.

Yu has elaborated on his position recently, with that maybe a fighting game engine in an adventure game is not a perfect fit, and he definitely has a point. There's room for the storytelling to come across more in the fights, feeling more like Ryo is a martial arts savant by pulling off elaborate moves and cinematic feats with simpler controls, that you don't really get when you're just cheesing Chai in the YOU Arcade with Crawl Cyclone.

And let's be real, there's a real sense of enjoyment in stuff like dodging and countering against enemies in the original games, but that's rarely ever more than two button presses. Having fun with Shenmue's combat does not exclusively rest on your ability to pull off Demon's Triangle every time.

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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby SheepheadCG » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:15 pm

Why is it that every single time we get info on the game, people start to complain lol Look at Yu's track record. The man knows what he is doing! He isn't going to make it some overly simple 1 button kills all system... He is going to make it fun and something that probably hasn't been done before. Let him do what he wants and please, stop complaining!

I know we are all looking insanely forward to this game, and we have been for 16 years but think about it from Yu's side. He has been wanting to make this damn game for us, for all those years too. He must have soooooo many ideas and things that he wants to do and I trust that he will do what he feels right for the game. I wouldn't want to play a game that has been twisted, turned and over-influenced by the fans, I want the original idea by the fucking genius creator who made the first 2 games that we all love.

Give him a break, trust him, and he will make one fucking amazing game.

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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:23 pm

I mean if we're talking one-hit kills, some of the lower powered enemies in the 70 man battle drop like a sack of potatoes...

And it's cool as fuck! Brutal Tiger to the head will never not be fun.

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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:30 pm

Spaghetti wrote: R.E combat.

Yu has said for a while Shenmue III's controls would be simplified-

- but before people start losing their shit, that's not synonymous with dumbing down the gameplay. In fact, Yu has talked about other complexities like strategy, physics and environment interactions, breaking up groups of enemies into more manageable pockets, etc. It seems like Yu will be asking players to fight more with their heads rather than their fingers, if you get my meaning.

He's also said before that the stretch goals for combat were basically things done in the older games but will be revised and made more sophisticated with modern technology, so it's not like an enormous departure in some respects.

Yu has elaborated on his position recently, with that maybe a fighting game engine in an adventure game is not a perfect fit, and he definitely has a point. There's room for the storytelling to come across more in the fights, feeling more like Ryo is a martial arts savant by pulling off elaborate moves and cinematic feats with simpler controls, that you don't really get when you're just cheesing Chai in the YOU Arcade with Crawl Cyclone.

And let's be real, there's a real sense of enjoyment in stuff like dodging and countering against enemies in the original games, but that's rarely ever more than two button presses. Having fun with Shenmue's combat does not exclusively rest on your ability to pull off Demon's Triangle every time.


I don't know, it doesn't make sense. A fighting game engine is perfect for fighting which is what Shenmue includes, so how could it not fit in Shenmue? I mean, a skilled fighter is technically proficient. You can see this when they execute their attacks. It's not just about using your head, it's also about using your body. Having complex executions and stuff can mimic this. Also, having a difficult system can really let the skill level of a skillful player shine because instead of the game making anyone look good during the combat because of the simplicity, you will have to make yourself look good. So the difficulty of "elaborate moves and cinematic feats" should be mimicked in game.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Enigma » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:36 pm

Looking at this part of the interview:

Q: So for now then, the story won't be completed in Shenmue III?

YS: No, I don't think it will be completed. It just won't be enjoyable if forced to a conclusion.


Of course Shenmue 3 won't be the last game but the way Suzuki says 'I don't think it will' makes me wonder if due to the partnership with Deep Silver whether Shenmue 3 is not only going to expand upon the content they already have but also by including more of the 11 chapters than originally intended? I recall Suzuki saying that Shenmue 3 will pick up from the second half of chapter 5 and continue past chapter 6 without specifying which chapter it will end at. Maybe which chapter Shenmue 3 ends at is still adjustable in view of this latest expansion on the game.
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Re: Game Watch Japan Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom 2017

Postby Yokosuka » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:41 pm

staplepuffs27 wrote:Ugh. The average casual gamer is not gonna be playing Shenmue 3. We can handle a complex fighting engine.


This concerns me a bit too. It is one thing to add thoughtful approach to combat, but pulling out one of the most elementary dimension in gaming is another. None of his statements on the subject has been a reassurance tbh.
On the positive side, making the system combat from scratch is obviously a huge advantage for the game designer he is, so I have to give him nothing but the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby mjq jazz bar » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:45 pm

I've got to be honest with you.

As far as graphics and logos are concerned (maybe voice acting as well), I don't necessarily trust Yu Suzuki. I think his heart's in the right place, but it's not his area of expertise.

As far as game design is concerned, I have 110% faith in him. He is a LEGENDARY, GROUNDBREAKING, VISIONARY game designer--one of the most important figures in all of video game history. He can do whatever he wants with his baby. I trust him.

Just my take.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:45 pm

Like I said with the example of cheesing the Chai fight; there's a disconnect between Ryo being good at martial arts in the story and the player being good at the game (or at least knowing how to win).

Again, I love Shenmue's combat and I spent a lot of time with it pulling off the harder moves, but in terms of looking good, and feeling like this great martial artist, that always came from the simpler stuff like dodging attacks, counters, and the occasional flashy harder move thrown in.

More often than not you're trying and failing to pull off those complex button presses before you finally get it right, and I think Yu wants to pull back on some of those more gamey behaviors and think more "what would I do if I was this character" when overwhelmed by enemies, and that's maybe also why stuff like the environment, physics, and splitting enemies into smaller groups are going to be integral parts of III's combat.

Like, if you wanted a fighting game you'd play one, not an adventure game.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby BlueMue » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:47 pm

I still think he needs to revamp the fighting system because he's simply not allowed to use the Virtua Fighter data, wich is sad but would make sense. I'm sure he does everything right and won't disappoint, his new ideas tend to set milestones in the gaming world after all. It's just that we're all used to the old system and don't want to much change...

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