Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translated]

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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby mjq jazz bar » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:48 pm

I'm pretty sure he's said he doesn't really like revisiting old ideas or "mixing" his old ideas together, so it makes sense he's building a new fighting engine. Obviously Shenmue is an "old idea," but it's an idea that he never got to finish.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:04 pm

BlueMue wrote:It's just that we're all used to the old system and don't want to much change...

There's also this.

If we were just told it was changing with no more information or justification that'd be a little concerning, but as it stands, I can kinda see it in my mind's eye and imagine what it'll be like, or thereabouts.

And we also have to remember the past. Shenmue's fighting engine was a simplified version of VF (seriously some of the timings and button presses are much more forgiving and easy to remember), and yet had plenty of depth if you cared to look for it.

Shenmue in general was designed for simplicity, as Yu imagined it as a game even kids can play (just look at the footage of him being excited seeing a kid enjoying the game at TGS pre-release. Also as someone who played Shenmue as a kid, I can attest to its simplicity), so it's not this huge departure to keep that at its core. Just don't assume simplicity means lowest common denominator.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby staplepuffs27 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:06 pm

Enigma wrote: Looking at this part of the interview:

Q: So for now then, the story won't be completed in Shenmue III?

YS: No, I don't think it will be completed. It just won't be enjoyable if forced to a conclusion.


Of course Shenmue 3 won't be the last game but the way Suzuki says 'I don't think it will' makes me wonder if due to the partnership with Deep Silver whether Shenmue 3 is not only going to expand upon the content they already have but also by including more of the 11 chapters than originally intended? I recall Suzuki saying that Shenmue 3 will pick up from the second half of chapter 5 and continue past chapter 6 without specifying which chapter it will end at. Maybe which chapter Shenmue 3 ends at is still adjustable in view of this latest expansion on the game.
Maybe later chapters will be this DLC that's been talked about as well -shudders-. If Shenmue were made today, I could see chapter 2 being DLC.

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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:13 pm

I have no problem with a new fighting engine, what I do have a problem with is an easier one. Oh well, I'll have to wait and see but I'm not confident about it. Ideally, the fighting system should be so good that you can make the fights look like the ones during cut scenes. I think if you want to look as skilled as Ryo does when he fights, the player must be skilled enough in game to pull it off and with a complex system, it would feel more rewarding, mimic how difficult it is to look that skilled and will show how good you are even when other players watch your footage or something. But this is how I feel, so I guess people have different views. I'm not totally against it, but I would much prefer it be this way.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:33 pm

Shenmue_Legend wrote:Ideally, the fighting system should be so good that you can make the fights look like the ones during cut scenes.

This is, I think, Yu's train of thought on the matter.

But where he's diverging from most of us is that the player must be really skilled to get to that point, and I personally believe he's right considering his justification about Shenmue ultimately being an adventure game.

I know we'll replay the games over and over and put in the countless hours to get really good at more complex fighting moves, but what about the people who just play it through once? Asking them to get as good as a player at a fighting game might be a turn off, because it's maybe not really what they bought into the game for.

They could be a quick thinker who is good at other types of games, but maybe their capacity for button presses and memorisation of moves is lacking. I know there's been some talk already in this thread about it maybe "making the fighting for dumb people", but other things Yu has said indicate using your head more in combat and providing a challenge other than just being quick on the gamepad. Does that really sound like he's making it for stupid people? It sort of sounds like the opposite in some respects.

And y'know, Yu has talked about having a strong interest in making the game challenging for players who found elements of the original games easy. Scaling difficulty has secretly been one of Yu's major legacies in gaming. The basic and intermediate combat controls may be simple for most players, but what's to say there isn't something further for players with more skill?

Ultimately, Yu wants the player to feel good. It's a video game, and that's what video games are largely for. He knows this, and has been practicing this methodology for basically his entire career. You can even see this in something like After Burner with how the game would sort of lock on to enemies unbeknownst to the player so they could feel like they're good at the game. I can't really blame him for following the core pillars of how he makes video games.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Centrale » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:43 pm

I'm just curious as to what the new system will be. It sounds more innovative and complex than the type of fighting system some have mentioned in Arkham and Sleeping Dogs. Personally, as deep as the fighting system in Shenmue II could be in the hands of an advanced player, I was disappointed to discover I could get through all the fights with simple punches and quick evasion (except Izumi, but that was due to her QTE).
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:58 pm

Spaghetti wrote:
Shenmue_Legend wrote:Ideally, the fighting system should be so good that you can make the fights look like the ones during cut scenes.

This is, I think, Yu's train of thought on the matter.

But where he's diverging from most of us is that the player must be really skilled to get to that point, and I personally believe he's right considering his justification about Shenmue ultimately being an adventure game.

I know we'll replay the games over and over and put in the countless hours to get really good at more complex fighting moves, but what about the people who just play it through once? Asking them to get as good as a player at a fighting game might be a turn off, because it's maybe not really what they bought into the game for.

They could be a quick thinker who is good at other types of games, but maybe their capacity for button presses and memorisation of moves is lacking. I know there's been some talk already in this thread about it maybe "making the fighting for dumb people", but other things Yu has said indicate using your head more in combat and providing a challenge other than just being quick on the gamepad. Does that really sound like he's making it for stupid people? It sort of sounds like the opposite in some respects.

And y'know, Yu has talked about having a strong interest in making the game challenging for players who found elements of the original games easy. Scaling difficulty has secretly been one of Yu's major legacies in gaming. The basic and intermediate combat controls may be simple for most players, but what's to say there isn't something further for players with more skill?

Ultimately, Yu wants the player to feel good. It's a video game, and that's what video games are largely for. He knows this, and has been practicing this methodology for basically his entire career. You can even see this in something like After Burner with how the game would sort of lock on to enemies unbeknownst to the player so they could feel like they're good at the game. I can't really blame him for following the core pillars of how he makes video games.


True. I guess the main goal is quite similar to mine but the approach is very different. I want to arrive to that
goal by complexity and simulation (I.E. mimicking the skill level required) while Yu seems like he wants to approach it with a fun, accessible and tactical type manner.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:14 pm

We'll see how it all works out.

Even unrelated the simplification, stretch goals like AI Battling look set to clear up an issue with Shenmue's combat regardless of the change to a new engine; a better, dynamic lock-on system of sorts. Gives me reassurance Yu has his head on straight and isn't just changing things for the sake of it.

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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby 7heavens » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:43 pm

Regarding the battle system, yu Suzuki did mention in a video interview a good while back that he wanted it more cinematic and it would be situation based. Ie depending on your position in regards to the opponent and the environment button presses would result in different actions.

I also remember him giving an example of being near a wall, where ryo would jump and rebound off the wall with a mma style Superman punch.
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Re: Game Watch Interview with Yu Suzuki @Gamescom [Translate

Postby Riku Rose » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:25 am

Q: At the moment, there are a lot of revivals of previous or classic games. Do you have any plans for a revival of Shenmue I and II? I think there would be a lot of people who would try them if they were available on PS4.

YS: The Shenmue IP belongs to SEGA, so I'm not in a position to give a direct answer. Personally, I also think it would be good if something could be done in connection with Shenmue III. It would probably also have a synergistic effect.


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