Persona/Shin Megami Tensei series

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

I'm in an odd position here because I don't hate the profile art (although I prefer it was like the older art) i hate the damn enemies sprites, and the cutscenes look kinda eww.

The game itself doesn't look terrible, but I felt like Nocturne was closer to the original games then this. I'm cool with evolutions and changes but I dunno feels alittle too far off. (Keep note my top 3 Atlus games are SMT2, MT and SMT3)

[Dorian]

I just saw this reaction of an old SMT fan and it cracked me up.

DOI, BITCH, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#rises from the depths of Amala and rolls back away to errands #i want KANEKO BACK

[OL]

^^That's exactly what I meant by the cinema scenes looking like shite.

It's actually very consistent. You're not looking at the style of Kaneko. You're looking at the style of an era. You are comparing SMTII's Hero from the SNES era to SMTII's Hero from the PSX remake. Kaneko didn't change his style - he just made two different versions of the same design because of two different eras. He was trying to update the 90s look and make it more CG-like to synch with the PSX era. That's not changing style. That just shows how good he is.

Exactly. He updated his art style. He changed it. And thereafter, he stuck with it like that until making further alterations to the style.
It's not like he did the SMT2 remake like that as a one-off, then went back to drawing like he did in earlier games. No, he continued with that into Nocturne (which is slightly different from the style of the SMT2 remake as well, though not as drastic as he'd done previously), then Raidou Kuzunoha and its sequel, on into Strange Journey...
Changing his style, if only slightly, the whole way through. It's not like he ever back-peddled to the kind of stuff he'd done previously. If he were to flip-flop back and forth between various styles the whole way through, then I might agree with you. But instead, his work slowly evolved over a long period of time. Whether it's just because of a change in era is moot. He was constantly changing his style regardless, which means that for all we know, it could be a little bit different now as well, which is the whole point I'm trying to get at.
It's not like I'm knocking anything he's done. I've always loved his style, because it always looks great. And for that matter, it's not like I'm championing Doi's style in this game either (I absolutely agree that the designs are really generic).

[Dorian]

Exactly. He updated his art style. He changed it. And thereafter, he stuck with it like that until making further alterations to the style.

Not at all. He didn't change his style. It's ridiculous to think of ANY artist - not only people who draw - to be EXACTLY THE FUCKING SAME ALL THE TIME. Style of an artist is something different than ONE of his work. That's one of the reasons why I always facepalm when people accuse certain musicians that they are 'sellouts' just because the new record doesn't sound exactly like the last one.

Every piece of artwork made by Kaneko has his distinctive style written all over it. He is a person who didn't compromise because of 'market research'. The main reason why SMTI-II remakes for PSX look different - and this is from Kaneko himself - is because he was forced to use different tools since the technology changed. Plus, the colouring wasn't done by him, but by some 'assistant(s?)'. His work never 'evolved' into anything. The man's a genius from day one. He was just using different tools throughout the years due to the changes in gaming development.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

I like apple cider. Just felt everyone should know that.

Oh I've got to be on topic? uhhh well. Regardless of if his tools changed or ir if his fingers got cut off, or if he had some kind of epiphany. His art changed, which is to be expected.

Personally I'm down with the 80/90s anime look because it was more vibrant to me.

[Dorian]

THE EPIC BATTLE OF EPIC EPICNESS IS ABOUT TO START!

VS

His art changed, which is to be expected.

No, it didn't. That's the point. His art didn't change, but you guys are using the term "art" in a quotidian context, just to point out that his 90s, hand-drawn artworks look different than his 2000s, computer-generated artworks. It's like saying that Leonardo da Vinci would change his art if he was able to use Photoshop. It wouldn't change his art. It would change the look of it because of different tools used. It's more about the philosophy behind somebody's work, the emotions it conveys and the aura it produces than about comparing pixels.

[OL]

Okay, now you're just arguing to argue. It's not just the coloring that's different between the two examples I posted before. The style of drawing has clearly changed.
Color the original Aleph design in the same way as the remake version, and it's still going to look completely different.
They're both distinctly "Kaneko," of course, but the style is still obviously different. Even more so, still, if you were to compare the style from SMT1 (his first Megaten work) to Strange Journey (his last).
An artist can easily have a distinctness to his work despite slowly changing the general technique of it. Kaneko has always been one of those kinds of artists. It isn't just a matter of the tools he's using.

That's one of the reasons why I always facepalm when people accuse certain musicians that they are 'sellouts' just because the new record doesn't sound exactly like the last one.

I know it's slightly off-topic, but I absolutely agree on this. People don't seem to understand that things change, and always tend to cry foul when new material isn't just like the old stuff. Ridiculous. I personally love it when musicians constantly try new things. It'd be boring otherwise.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

I like apple cider. Just felt everyone should know that.

Oh I've got to be on topic? uhhh well. Regardless of if his tools changed or ir if his fingers got cut off, or if he had some kind of epiphany. His STYLE changed, which is to be expected.

Personally I'm down with the 80/90s anime look because it was more vibrant to me.

Happy now semantics queen?

[OL]

Probably not, since he was saying the style didn't change either...

[Dorian]

Okay, now you're just arguing to argue.

Seriously, though, I'm really not sharing your interpretations of what happened between SNES and PSX. You really fail to see that Kaneko did the same artwork, but with different tools. It's like building a house with the same plans, but using different material. It will look differently, but it's the same concept. Art is more than colour schemes and the kind of tools used. Art is primarily about conveying something deeper than what you see at first sight. In that sense, Kaneko didn't change his style. He is true to himself and he is consistent in his work. There is nothing commercialised about Kaneko. Not even one thing. That's why he isn't making SMTIV. Somebody clearly gave 'market directions' to its team. The game isn't looking like somebody's vision. It's looking like something from a factory. Measured with a ruler and tailored to certain 'standards'. I don't like it at all. It's just souless, as I said before.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

I like apple cider. Just felt everyone should know that.

Oh I've got to be on topic? uhhh well. Regardless of if his tools changed or ir if his fingers got cut off, or if he had some kind of epiphany. His TOOLS changed, which is to be expected.

Personally I'm down with the 80/90s anime look because it was more vibrant to me.

How bout now?

[Dorian]

I like apple cider. Just felt everyone should know that.

Oh I've got to be on topic? uhhh well. Regardless of if his tools changed or ir if his fingers got cut off, or if he had some kind of epiphany. His TOOLS changed, which is to be expected.

Personally I'm down with the 80/90s anime look because it was more vibrant to me.

How bout now?

[Thief]

Different? Changed.

You guys are silly.

[Dorian]

Different? Changed.

You guys are silly.

[Henry Spencer]

Confirmation that Kazuma Kaneko is not working on SMTIV, at all, not only that, but neither is Shoji Meguro (even he has been replaced by Trauma Team staff), hmmm:

Director – Kazuyuki Yamai (Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne Maniax, Raidou series)
Art director – Eiji Ishida (Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne, Strange Journey)
Composer – Ryota Kozuka (Trauma Team, Soul Hackers 3DS opening theme)
Main programmer – Satoshi Ooyama (Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne Maniax, Raidou series)
Sound director – Kenichi Tsuchiya (Shin Megami Tensei series, Persona series)

http://bdashnews.wordpress.com/2012/09/ ... y-famitsu/

I actually think Meguro and Kaneko must be working on something else, funny that they both don't prioritise SMT4 over whatever it is, though.