Communism in China, and Ren's return in Shenmue III

[shenmue852]

Well first off, I used to post here back in 2001-2003, so if anyone from that era is still around, holler.

Anyway, I was thinking about how Shenmue never mentions communism, but still maintains aspects of history, i.e HK is a British colony at the time, and China, though communism is never explicitly mentioned, is definitely portrayed as cut off from the rest of society. Now obviously the game can't directly reference communism or the cultural revolution, not least because it's being made by Japanese people who are trying to portray China in a positive way, so it seems like the game's approach is to portray China, along with some of the aspects of its society in the 20th century, but not communism specifically.

That said, when I watched a let's play of Shenmue II recently, I realized that Shenhua's house in the flashback has a completely different structure on the same land, as well as an additional garden with a pagoda. The old house had a lot of intricate ornamentation on the outside and looked like a wealthy people's residence, but if not that, it was definitely classical Chinese architecture. The 1987 house is a lot more rudimentary and simple, and instead of the garden and pagoda, there's just a vegetable patch. So that made me realize there's still a nuanced subtle depiction of the struggles China went through, without specifically referencing certain events and political entities. Shenhua mentions the villagers don't have much iron, and iron kind of was scarce in communist China, though less so in 1987, but it's still possible that there'd be less of it in rural areas. Thought I'd share that too.

As for Ren, YS mentioned that not only is he returning, but we'll possibly be playing as him. But what I wanted to mention is that we should have realized it was confirmed from the concept sketches on the Shenmue II GD Roms, since there's a sketch of Ren riding a horse and waving a banner!

[Jeff]

Because this isn't a game about communism.

[NeoShredder]

Because this isn't a game about communism.

Not necessarily. Okay it's not a political game of course, but it's always been on-point about setting.

Amihama/Dobuita = The US Navy base and SAILORS
Hong Kong = The British influences everywhere

Yu-san is wondering how to include forklifts, I've thought this would be OBVIOUS...The Communist party is always trying to build big fancy construction projects...could be a whole side story about a village being marked for demolition

[Hyo Razuki]

Interesting points there, OP. Although we can't be certain it was the Communists who destroyed Shenhua's family's old house. Could have also been a fire, a natural catastrophe or something else.

@NeoShredder:

Love the idea of Ryo working on some huge infrastructure project as a forklift driver. Could be a party campaign to develop rural Guangxi Province.

[sand4fish]

Any political conjecture is merely coincidence and just a product of how detailed and faithful to the time and setting Yu Suzuki wanted the game to be. About the op, iron was only unavailable for Shenhua's village but it was never mentioned it was a scarce resource in Guilin. Having said that, chiyoumen influence in corrupting officials in Shenmue 3 would explain certainly rampant bad guys for Ryo to beat and the lack of police involvement.

[johnvivant]

Chairman Mao makes a cameo in the game, if that counts

[shenmue852]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

re: iron- 10-15 years prior to Shenmue, in the real world, the government seized most iron for central infrastructure purposes and couldn't put proper manufacturing in place to produce more. Iron became scarce in the country in general, but it was still obtainable compared to the dark period preceding what happened.

re: the house- The game doesn't say that this happened to Shenhua's house specifically, but the government did seize houses as well as break down and eliminate traditional culture wherever they could, at one point. The game does show that *something* happened though, and that it had to be rebuilt in a much simpler, rustic way, and that Shenhua's birth parents probably died tragically.

so basically what I'm saying is it's showing the effects of history, but without portraying politically sensitive things. like i read an article that talked about how Yokosuka in 1987 had a troubled economy and was reliant on the black market with smugglers and sailors, and this is reflected in Shenmue where the clothes shops and restaurants are worried about business while the bars are doing great- but it's still not about any of the political entities that were responsible for the situation.

Shenmue is a game that's both directly and indirectly about the past, in an abstract thematic way. It can feel very moving about this at times.

[ShenRy092]

I think Sony want Shenmue to be huge in China.

Also I think the CCP would probably be interested in funding this game so that Mr. Suzuki can make the landscape of China as great as possible. That would create an interest in tourist attractions The beauty of China.

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[shenmue852]

the whole "Japanese" thing would undermine its reception among most mainland China people, and the CCP for sure wouldn't approve. The CCP only approves when something is pro China government and against foreigners. A positive portrayal of a Japanese is simply something they're not interested in.

They banned Battlefield 4 in China, despite that game being respectful in its portrayal of the country.

[ShenRy092]

That Battlefield game talk about war and stuff. Shenmue is nothing of that scale.
Shenmue is about martial arts and mythical legend.

The CCP would want to make it as a tourist attraction. Beautiful landscape of China in Mr. Suzuki masterpiece. That cave in Shenmue 2..... Many would want to tour the actual cave.

[shenmue852]

That would be nice, I agree, but I think you underestimate the government's grudge against the Japanese. Shared by a lot of the population though not all.

Part of me wonders (I really don't know for sure though) if there's a personal aspect for Yu Suzuki of expressing his hope for friendship between Chinese and Japanese through the game, because a lot of Chinese and Japanese do admire each other's cultures, but the politicians and right wing nationalists keep instigating tension and historically there's lots of bad blood.

If nothing else, the CCP will just not condemn or ban it, but they won't praise it either. I think a lot of Chinese people would love the game though, but the China market is just a different universe from the rest of the world, and it isn't an EA game that's automatically mainstream everywhere- that being said, much more China people will be able to play it than before, since consoles were illegal in China in 2000 and there was less internet driven awareness channels like social media for something like Shenmue to spread.

[Hyo Razuki]

Also, don't forget a Chinese triad (Chi You Men) which is not only active in Hong Kong and abroad but also on the mainland plays a major role in the game's plot which the party sure as heck won't like. Especially if a village in Guangxi Province was to be depicted as under the control of the triad.

Also the party probably won't like the Guilin region depicted as extremely backward for the late 1980's. I mean, that part of China might indeed not have been very developed back then but even if that's true, the party probably still would not like for that to be shown.

[shenmue852]

For that matter, all the magic would piss them off as well. Supernatural stuff largely isn't permitted in Chinese movies, except in comedies that make fun of it.

I think they would actually like the portrayal of the village though, believe it or not the CPC still likes to produce propaganda about how noble the simple rural people are and that the government should learn to serve them.

[MoonStar15]

I think Sony want Shenmue to be huge in China.

Also I think the CCP would probably be interested in funding this game so that Mr. Suzuki can make the landscape of China as great as possible. That would create an interest in tourist attractions The beauty of China.

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phpBB [video]

............So that is probably what Mr. Suzuki is in China for.

[Kiske]

Ok then, but why no stretch goal for Chinese subtitles?